Celan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Witchking of Angmar said: For Rebec I was referring to Wuld. It was only shown/mentioned that it was the only time she practiced that one and she did succeed within minutes. She didn't just start that one. If you go by obscure lore, it never totally died out. Read the notes from the Lusty Argonian Society on TIL. The Nords voluntarily stopped using it. I'm not going to debate every nitpick on the thu'um, just as I didn't want to debate every spell of the magic users. How long does it take to learn a basic spell? In the novels, a guy casts automatically based on adrenaline, with no formal training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Celan said: In the novels, a guy casts automatically based on adrenaline, with no formal training. Do you remember who that was? I was trying to find magic uses in my copies for BT the other day and don’t recall this. Colin and Sul both had some interesting magical feats when their adrenaline was high, but they also both had formal training, albeit in Colin’s case magic is usually difficult for him. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I meant Colin. He cast as a child before any training. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Damn. I don’t remember that at all. His chapters were full of flashbacks though so that sounds about right. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 41 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said: For me it's pretty much never how much power one got and instead of time/effort/cost it takes to get it. I would be fine if Arle could shout people off their feet by the time of the war if she was mentioned/shown to have spent a lot time in deep meditation till that point. I'm not going to give the minute play by play so you're going to have to live with it. Isn't the rp long enough? I mean, did we get a detailed post about every spell every character learned or they can't use it in the rp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witchking of Angmar Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: Good thing it ain’t magic then Anyway I’m keeping it. It is magic in the way you know what I mean. Not even Fus causes recoil. Unless you're to tell me Baldur somehow forces the fire to turn around and go back at him to force him upwards. In which case I'd say he should get some fireproof clothes. Or a big wardrobe. 9 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: I don’t think normal physics apply to dragon shouts. Otherwise there should be a meeting of warm and cold air fronts in their bellies to create the tornado. Much of the magic defies the physics of our world. I just say that if a certain spell is shown to work one specific way, there should be a good explanation as to why it works very differently in another place. By which I mean consistency is the word. Power corrupts, absolute power... is a whole lot of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTC Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) Sorry, I was updating my computer and didn't want to type out responses on my phone 2 hours ago, ColonelKillaBee said: As for shadow magic, I do wonder if you can obtain almost infinite magic pools if you were a master of it, since you could pull energy from other dimensions. It actually reminds me of a Stargate Atlantis episode, LOL. 2 hours ago, ColonelKillaBee said: If not, you know how games have a second wind ability for warriors? Would be cool if shadow mages had something like that. Where they could use a spell to actually replenish their magic pools once. Not sure what the limits for that would be. I don't want to spoil the potential uses of shadow magic, though I will say I have several uses I've extrapolated from the limited information in game, though I'm not sure if all of them are going to come up or not 2 hours ago, The Good Doctor said: Thu’um, the Dwemer’s manipulations of the Heart of Lorkhan, and the Numidium all fall under the Tonal Architecture category for sure. The Wild Hunt and Sword Singing probably don’t use magicka as we know it, but I’m not sure they’d be tonal architecture. Dawn magic is magic of creatia so it probably is similar to the Heart/Dwemer stuff but weaker since it was wielded by mortals without a god’s heart. I’m not sure if shadow magic would use magicka or not. Maybe only so far as it is necessary to open their minds up to view the “doors” you have described. Yeah, I think it's in line with dawn magic, in that it is a mortal version of some greater force. What that force is I'm not quite sure. Dawn is creatia, so maybe shadow is...of the void? Padomaic? It's rooted in conflict, so change and chaos seem part of that, though conflict is not quite the same as either of those two ideas. I don't know, and thankfully since Morane doesn't either, I don't really have to know lol 1 hour ago, ColonelKillaBee said: Honestly, I think that the opening doors thing should probably be mostly mental. The actual act of manipulating might require magicka. Maybe for beginners it does, to extend the reach of what your mind can perceive in other simultaneous possibilities. 1 hour ago, The Good Doctor said: That’s more what I was referring to. They’re not masters like Winvale so I was thinking of it more along the lines of a “fortify intelligence” esq spell to put it very basically. I'm not sure. I haven't established either way if either 'viewing' or 'manipulating' uses magicka, though it's possible one or the other or both does. It's hard to say without knowing for sure what exactly the origin or force behind shadow magic is. But I have established it's limited in the same way magicka based magic is, so I don't think it really matters much whether it's using magic or not, since it's draining in other ways, like mentally Edited February 21, 2018 by BTCollins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witchking of Angmar Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Celan said: I'm not going to give the minute play by play so you're going to have to live with it. Isn't the rp long enough? I mean, did we get a detailed post about every spell every character learned or they can't use it in the rp? Mentions can still be done in the space of half a sentence of what has happened for weeks. Power corrupts, absolute power... is a whole lot of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 53 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: Now what might be surprising is I'm on board with Witch on this matter, it doesn't bother me but I do find it a little strange how quickly the islander is learning. Rebbec and Baldur? I have no issue with their Thu'um use and learning however. She's a mage. They just don't call it that. And she's as close as they have to an elite. So if you don't have any problem with Rebec, don't see a difference. Anyway I'm done discussing it. It's not relevant to anything. I don't have any plans for Arle in the war. The post was about characterization for Rebec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Witchking of Angmar said: Much of the magic defies the physics of our world. I just say that if a certain spell is shown to work one specific way, there should be a good explanation as to why it works very differently in another place. By which I mean consistency is the word. To be fair, Fire Breath is one of the few shouts that even in-game we have seen work in multiple different ways. Dragons can breath it like a stream or propel it as a fireball that explodes on impact. The Dragonborn spit it out in a cone similar to shotgun fire. And when he meditates on it enough, he is even able to shape it into flame serpents. So that’s four different uses right there. With one of them indicating thag meditating and better understanding the words of a shout allows you greater manipulation of whatever power it represents. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said: Mentions can still be done in the space of half a sentence of what has happened for weeks. You can also assume something that's easily assumed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTC Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 The way I see it is, though Celan didn't mention it specifically, it stands to reason Rebec would've been meditating on the word, since she knows the process of learning the Thu'um. It could've been mentioned as a line about how she's spent so many days or weeks meditating, but I don't think it's strictly necessary. I've tried to make it so that no one thinks the shadow mages have learned too quickly, so I'll mention a couple weeks or days passing by, but with Celan having limited time to write I don't see it as a big deal that she doesn't mention every little detail. Since we can infer things that seem pretty clear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Celan said: She's a mage. They just don't call it that. And she's as close as they have to an elite. So if you don't have any problem with Rebec, don't see a difference. My mistake Celan, I thought in her conversation with Rebec she dissed Jhunal which I'd associate with the Clever Craft. Well in that case I have to retract my statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witchking of Angmar Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Celan said: You can also assume something that's easily assumed. And what is assumed is what is implied by the writing around it. Which is that she was too busy to do any meditation and thus learnt it within minutes. Edited February 21, 2018 by Witchking of Angmar Power corrupts, absolute power... is a whole lot of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, TheCzarsHussar said: My mistake Celan, I thought in her conversation with Rebec she dissed Jhunal which I'd associate with the Clever Craft. Well in that case I have to retract my statement. She did. My point is she probably has more qualification than Rebec. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said: It is magic in the way you know what I mean. Not even Fus causes recoil. Unless you're to tell me Baldur somehow forces the fire to turn around and go back at him to force him upwards. In which case I'd say he should get some fireproof clothes. Or a big wardrobe. Much of the magic defies the physics of our world. I just say that if a certain spell is shown to work one specific way, there should be a good explanation as to why it works very differently in another place. By which I mean consistency is the word. You’re going by vidya gaem standards again and being rather close minded and unimaginative if you ask me. Doesnt take much thought process at all really, it’s a constant stream, made to be more powerful so that he can jump higher or avoid a fall’s impact. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said: And what is assumed is what is implied by the writing around it. Which is that she was to busy to do any meditation and thus learnt it within minutes. She got the word from Baldur and followed the same process you saw before. Do I really have to spell it out? This is ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witchking of Angmar Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: You’re going by vidya gaem standards again and being rather close minded and unimaginative if you ask me. Doesnt take much thought process at all really, it’s a constant stream, made to be more powerful so that he can jump higher or avoid a fall’s impact. Not really as if it's one thing that been shown to not exists it's recoil. Otherwise Baldur would shout himself off his feet in other occasions when using it. I can buy it having a force that bounces off a surface and back against him though. Power corrupts, absolute power... is a whole lot of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 20 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said: Not really as if it's one thing that been shown to not exists it's recoil. Otherwise Baldur would shout himself off his feet in other occasions when using it. I can buy it having a force that bounces off a surface and back against him though. Again, control. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 In fact I introduced the concept with Arngeir when I mentioned Baldur’s power fluctuates based on his emotions. He had to get good at control from the get go because of this. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 hours ago, The Good Doctor said: To be fair, Fire Breath is one of the few shouts that even in-game we have seen work in multiple different ways. Dragons can breath it like a stream or propel it as a fireball that explodes on impact. The Dragonborn spit it out in a cone similar to shotgun fire. And when he meditates on it enough, he is even able to shape it into flame serpents. So that’s four different uses right there. With one of them indicating thag meditating and better understanding the words of a shout allows you greater manipulation of what it represents. You know, thinking about this more I think you could even say Baldur’s little candle lighting trick that he used to light his fingers on fire is like a very weak and lesser form of that. Manipulation of fire I bet is easier because it’s such a staple thu’um. Not to mention fire and words associated with it have so many different applications and meanings. It’s also one of the shouts that represents raw power for them "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTC Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I was thinking about how the Bosmers' racial ability, command animals. The name of the ability in Morrowind and Oblivion was beast tongue, so would that mean they can actually talk to animals, or would y'all say that's just flavor for the ability? I was wondering if anyone could talk to animals without doing what Yornar did with Karsh, enhancing the animal's intelligence. The Bosmer ability and the command creature spell seems like it could, depending on how it actually works in the world and not in the games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witchking of Angmar Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) I always pictured their ability to speak with animals to be rather one sided. As in they speak to an animal in such a way that the animal will understand them to an extent but the animal can't really say anything back. A bit like a Disney princess. And now I got the image of a Bosmer girl dressed in a bone and leather dress stuck in my head. Edited February 22, 2018 by Witchking of Angmar 2 Power corrupts, absolute power... is a whole lot of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I don’t know if we have anything concrete on that. I always imagined it was indeed more of a communication than a spell which makes animals do what you want. I doubt it would be like a two-way conversation though. More like just conveying their messages to the animals. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 The Kyne's Peace shout works in a similar way. Maybe Rebec should learn that one next. Or does the Bosmer ability let them command animals to fight for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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