Roleplayer's Off Topic Thread #33

[The Good Doctor]

6 minutes ago, Centurion said:

The NCR is just going through growing pains. Think of it like 1880’s America with the birth of the monopolies.

The NCR is more like 1880s America with so many of its problems except also combined with early 2000s America caught up in dubiously moral foreign conflicts that cost thousands of lives while granting minimal benefit to the people back home, a ludicrously overinflated economy, and a leadership more interested in their own wealth and careers than the well-being of their nation. Except unlike America in any period, most of their land is barren of resources and they are fast approaching major shortages. And their economic crash is not an indicator of growth, as a conversion to fiat money rarely if ever is. It’s an indicator of decline, particularly when there isn’t an abundance of resources or technological breakthroughs to make high living cheaper as a counter.

Frankly, I think the House ending is the best outcome for them. The blame falls on the worst politicians. Vegas remains a friendly ally instead of a bitter conquered territory that serves as a gateway for further over-expansion. The NCR is presented a trade deal to provide them water and power at better efficiency than their chucklehead engineers could achieve. They get a buffer zone from the Legion that also forces them to look inward to fixing their own house instead of messing with others.

For the record, the NCR is probably my favorite faction in Fallout. Definitely top 3, at least. I just don’t see this victory as good for them.

12 minutes ago, Centurion said:

Legion does not have a long term in the slightest. The Legion will die with the death of  Caesar. Without courier intervention he dies during the course of the game from a brain tumor. The legion will crumble to dust in 5 years. The Legionaries aren’t loyal to the legion, they are loyal to Caesar. Without him guiding their actions they will devour themselves and return to tribal groups picking at the scraps of the four corners states.

If the Legion loses, I agree. I also agree if they win but Caesar dies.

If they win and Caesar survives? I don’t think so. His plan was never to maintain the status quo once he achieves victory. Taking Vegas/Rome will give him a citizenry and infrastructure. The Legion is a tool to get himself a nation, not the nation itself. Once he has that, we have no idea what he’ll use it to build. But his ridiculous success thus far has me thinking he’s got plans for achieving his "synthesis" besides just quoting Hegel.

If Lanius withdrawals, then he intends to focus inwards. We don’t know what exactly he will do, but he commands a similar cult of personality among them to Caesar's own, albeit a more honest one. I believe they will follow him, even if he has to make some examples first. What he’ll turn them into is another story. Without Caesar’s vision to lead him or to serve as a crutch, I could see him going in many possible directions. He could end up becoming a Ghengis Khan-like figure. He’s certainly not a brutish idiot like he might at first appear.

17 minutes ago, Centurion said:

House is an arrogant egomaniac

Pretty much. But a brilliant one nonetheless. He would drink Rockefeller’s milkshake.

18 minutes ago, Centurion said:

except he has no base of manufacturing, his families are constantly conspiring against him. He doesn’t have enough securitrons to control anything beyond the outskirts of Vegas

There are manufacturing centers in and around outer Vegas, and he has the knowledge and means to build more. Not to mention the experience. Hell, there are factions within the NCR who have managed this with a lot less going for them than House does. He also has an advanced, non-diluted, prewar understanding of economics and governmental systems, stuff that the NCR is having to relearn as they go. That’s actually an understatement as House was among the best in the world back then.

The Families aren’t conspiring against him. Benny and Mortimer worked in secret against the will of their tribes, who remain steadfast and loyal, and instantly turn on the dissidents once they’re uncovered. The Omertas are loyal to their own greed first and foremost, but they’re mostly footmen, not trusted by Nero and Big Sal to know what’s going on. Cachino is easy for House to control, so when he takes over, the whole tribe is back under heel.

House doesn’t rely exclusively on securitrons. He has the three tribes, who are much bigger in-lore than in-game considering that their presence alone was enough for the NCR to not consider New Vegas worth the fight. He also has literal millions of caps (dude spent over 800k just scavenging for the Platinum Chip, and he doesn’t seem hurt by it), and access to loads of mercenaries who are mentioned but never shown. As he expands Vegas, he will undoubtedly employ more help as needed.

Plus, the MK II Securitron army is nothing to balk at. We don’t know its size, but it was enough to immediately send the NCR and Legion packing when it emerged.

 

[The Good Doctor]

52 minutes ago, Centurion said:

In a sense I guess lol. More like complete and utter anarchy, which as I age, am less and less against lol

When I was a young rascal I was a blind NCR patriot.

Then I grew up, got taxed, and became a full blown Wild Card anarchist.

Then came my Legion phase because some idiots just needed to be told how to live or die because they suck.

That was bad. So now I am Easy Pete and life is good. 

[BigBossBalrog]

Take the Ashur pill. Ashur did nothing wrong. 

[The Good Doctor]

1 minute ago, BigBossBalrog said:

Ashur did nothing wrong. 

He trusted that weaselly wannabe Snake Plissken cyclopes, Werner. 

[Centurion]

@The Good Doctor and those are all valid points. I just don’t hold House in that high of regard. Like Caesar says, he is a fucking footnote lol. To me at least. 

as for the coming crash, I’m not saying they are gonna weather it well, I’m saying that crash stimulate growth, for better or worse, think the Panic of 1785 which caused the articles of confederation to be replaced by the constitution and the Great Depression which launched the plague of socialism we are dealing with now in our country. There will be a recovery, we just don’t know what. Fallout 2 showed that vault city literally has hundreds of spare water chips (the vault dweller is spinning in his grave) maybe they can figure out a desalinization process, who knows.

As for Caesar, yes if he wins with his life his legion will change. But we know he dies of a brain tumor without courier intervention. So that possibility won’t happen.

I think I’d prefer a yes man ending where the Desert Rangers return and the Mojave is able to form it’s own government of the people.

[Centurion]

19 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

When I was a young rascal I was a blind NCR patriot.

Then I grew up, got taxed, and became a full blown Wild Card anarchist.

Then came my Legion phase because some idiots just needed to be told how to live or die because they suck.

That was bad. So now I am Easy Pete and life is good. 

Young= NCR patriot, stemmed from US patriotism

Now= I like the Rangers, don’t like taxes, don’t like the feds, boog time 

[Centurion]

8 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

Take the Ashur pill. Ashur did nothing wrong. 

Ehhhhh….. no

[Centurion]

But on a real note, all four endings aren’t good for the Mojave. They are kinda like the 2020 election were each choice fucking sucks and no one wants to deal with either of them 

[BigBossBalrog]

17 minutes ago, Centurion said:

Ehhhhh….. no

Oh come on, they aren't Slaves, there "workers" 

What I like about Ashur is he reminds of Caeser; except instead of being a narcissistic larper, Ashur is a moral man forced into the role of dictator because of the legit horrible situation. The Pitt is literally one of the worst places you can be born after the end of the world.  I'd just say the Divide beats it out cause it still has a sizeable human population, but only just. Most of the people there are sterile because babies ARE BORN AS HORRIBLE MUTANTS, said Mutants infest the ruins, ruinsd which are an endless warzone, and the only way people survive are through fortress towns, and 70 percent of the population are raiders, and the rest slaves. Ashur was given a choice, fuck off with the Brotherhood who deemed the place "unsavable" are do horrible things for the benefit of saving them. Kill the raider heads, force the gangs to work for him, and put the people to work. 

Working steel mills is an insanely powerful thing to have, and I like how Ashur painfulyl says "the cost of the people working them is outweighed by the sheer economic and production it brings". And he's 100 percent right.

[Centurion]

2 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

Oh come on, they aren't Slaves, there "workers" 

What I like about Ashur is he reminds of Caeser; except instead of being a narcissistic larper, Ashur is a moral man forced into the role of dictator because of the legit horrible situation. The Pitt is literally one of the worst places you can be born after the end of the world.  I'd just say the Divide beats it out cause it still has a sizeable human population. Most of the people there are sterile because babies ARE BORN AS HORRIBLE MUTANTS, said Mutants infest the ruins, ruinsd which are an endless warzone, and the only way people survive are through fortress towns, and 70 percent of the population are raiders, and the rest slaves. Ashur was given a choice, fuck off with the Brotherhood who deemed the place "unsavable" are do horrible things for the benefit of saving them. Kill the raider heads, force the gangs to work for him, and put the people to work. 

Working steel mills is an insanely powerful thing to have, and I like how Ashur painfulyl says "the cost of the people working them is outweighed by the sheer economic and production it brings". And he's 100 percent right.

Nope. Not taking the Ashur pill. Yes the Pitt sucks. Lol. I don’t like slavery, no matter the situation. It also pains me greatly that the most aesthetically pleasing flag in history is associated with people held in bondage.

[The Good Doctor]

1 minute ago, Centurion said:

As for Caesar, yes if he wins with his life his legion will change. But we know he dies of a brain tumor without courier intervention. So that possibility won’t happen.

But the hypothetical revolved around a Legion victory, meaning Courier intervention. I agree that Caesar is doomed otherwise, but there is a possible ending where he’s not.

3 minutes ago, Centurion said:

as for the coming crash, I’m not saying they are gonna weather it well, I’m saying that crash stimulate growth, for better or worse, think the Panic of 1785 which caused the articles of confederation to be replaced by the constitution and the Great Depression which launched the plague of socialism we are dealing with now in our country. There will be a recovery, we just don’t know what.

Crashes can stimulate growth if the conditions are right, but the NCR’s conditions ain’t as hot for that as our own were. Hell, there has never been a time in American history when we weren’t insanely resource rich and not a time in the last century when we weren’t experiencing rapid technological growth. The NCR is relatively stagnant if not declining, as well as depressingly resource poor for its size.

8 minutes ago, Centurion said:

I think I’d prefer a yes man ending where the Desert Rangers return and the Mojave is able to form it’s own government of the people.

I’m not as concerned about the Rangers just because they don’t seem particularly upset working for the NCR, but by and large I agree with you. While I think House is better for the NCR than Indy (due to the trade deal guaranteeing their inflow of water and electricity won’t be hampered), an independent Mojave region is my preferred ending.

And given that this is possible dialogue for an Indy Courier at the end:

Oliver:  "Do you know what you're doing? Making a nation like you think you're doing ain't like chowing down on a pile of Fancy Lad Snack Cakes. Think you got the guts to carve out a frontier? Build towns, protect the roads, run supplies, train troops?"

Courier:  "I guarantee I’ve put more thought into the state of the Mojave than you or anyone in the NCR." / "My sycophant tells me 'yes'."

Which to me suggests that your Courier, if you choose to play them this way, can have much more in mind for the future of the Mojave than just kicking everyone out and letting chaotic anarchy reign. And between their control over Big MT and direct access to House’s plans and projections, they’re better equipped than anyone alive to begin the process of building a nation.

However, I think it’s also the riskiest option. Even if it might turn out well, it comes with far less guarantees than just letting House do it. On the flip side, this also guarantees he won’t be casually killing anyone who stands in his way or annoys him like the petty bastard that he sometimes is.

[The Good Doctor]

Just now, Centurion said:

Nope. Not taking the Ashur pill. Yes the Pitt sucks. Lol. I don’t like slavery, no matter the situation. It also pains me greatly that the most aesthetically pleasing flag in history is associated with people held in bondage.

The Isle of Man was held in bondage?

[Centurion]

2 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

The Isle of Man was held in bondage?

I see you are a “leg man” 

[The Good Doctor]

45 minutes ago, Centurion said:

But on a real note, all four endings aren’t good for the Mojave. They are kinda like the 2020 election were each choice fucking sucks and no one wants to deal with either of them 

I actually think they all can be good or bad depending on your Courier, and that’s the point.

The default word state is inherently bad, because the region is a war zone, everyone’s resources are getting stretched, and gangs are popping up everywhere to exploit the defenseless. So it’s kinda like how even if there are problems with both sides of the civil war in Skyrim, picking either side is still better than staying neutral, because it brings an end to the war and the suffering it causes and allows the winning faction to focus on rebuilding.

At the NCR’s best (Courier does the heavy lifting, takes care of business, and allows the NCR to focus on Hoover Dam without getting devastated everywhere behind their front lines), they can bring a lot of good to the Mojave in terms of law and stability. At their worst (Courier helps little) they can be tragically incompetent, terrible at providing any value to the region while still exploiting it for taxes and resources.

At the Legion’s best (Caesar lives) the Legion can be an even greater source of stability and in the long term could almost completely get rid of any problems that plague the region, from criminals to mutants to drugs. At their worst (Caesar dies), they are a directionless war-horde led by a man who is intelligent but has no idea what to do next. They’ll probably dissolve and now the region is flooded with lesser war-bands who are likely to become raiders. 

The best case for Wild Card can be a lot of things, from a new free nation to a collection of cooperating towns and organized trade routes with a securitron-guarded Vegas at the helm. But the worst case could have Hoover Dam decommissioned, cutting off electricity to Vegas and the NCR, with tribes and gangs ruling the region and constantly at war, and no NCR or Legion to hold them at bay.

House probably has the least variance because we don’t really have as much influence over the world state if he wins. He does things his way regardless of what we do or say, both for better and for worse. Though I think the worst House’s ending can get is probably a lot better than things are during the game. 

[The Good Doctor]

1 hour ago, Centurion said:

Now= I like the Rangers, don’t like taxes, don’t like the feds, boog time 

Give it like five more years. When the boog never comes and all the things making you want it are still happening, you’ll realize this is just how the world always is. Then you’ll move to Goodsprings and stash all that boogaloo dynamite you’ve been buying up. You’ll get some goats, don a straw hat, and become East Pete. All these factions will melt away in your mind til you forget which ones even still exist. And life will be good.

[Centurion]

You know what really grinds me gears? Fallout 76 getting the best fallout map ever fucking made. That shit is fucking FANTASTIC and the game with it FUCKING SUCKS

[The Good Doctor]

3 hours ago, Centurion said:

You know what really grinds me gears? Fallout 76 getting the best fallout map ever fucking made. That shit is fucking FANTASTIC and the game with it FUCKING SUCKS

It’s a little random for my taste. Kinda has the same problem all the Bethesda maps do with locations and regions just kind of being placed around without much thought to things like trade routes or survivability. It does seem a little better than Fallout 3 in this regard, though. New Vegas has my favorite map for this reason. Every location makes sense and is placed where it is for a reason. I love that sort of thing.

But aesthetically? It’s no context. Fallout 76 is massive and beautiful. I wish that every game going forward that's not set in actual desert regions would have similar amounts of greenery and different biomes like it does. Actually, I hope they are much more overgrown since nature has had 200 years to reclaim the world.

[BigBossBalrog]

1 hour ago, The Good Doctor said:

It’s a little random for my taste. Kinda has the same problem all the Bethesda maps do with locations and regions just kind of being placed around without much thought to things like trade routes or survivability. It does seem a little better than Fallout 3 in this regard, though. New Vegas has my favorite map for this reason. Every location makes sense and is placed where it is for a reason. I love that sort of thing.

But aesthetically? It’s no context. Fallout 76 is massive and beautiful. I wish that every game going forward that's not set in actual desert regions would have similar amounts of greenery and different biomes like it does. Actually, I hope they are much more overgrown since nature has had 200 years to reclaim the world.

And like a lush and vivid post-apcyopse like Nausica 

[The Good Doctor]

39 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

And like a lush and vivid post-apcyopse like Nausica 

76 kinda does do something like this with some of its biomes. 

[Centurion]

2 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

76 kinda does do something like this with some of its biomes. 

Like the Mire in 76 is really overgrown and swampy and the in universe explanation is that a vault (I don’t remember which one) was filled with a religious pacifist population That opened one year after the bombs and invited the people of the wastes to come to the fault. This vault also had some seed spore samples that got lost and some people came to the vault, shot the inhabitants and tried to destroy the vaults geck, which melted down and did its geck thing while also combining with the seeds to make the mire

[Centurion]

But yeah I say it has the best map because it is so large, filled with vegetation, and different regions while also maintaining that post-nuke feel. I love it. I’ve been installing greenery mods on fallout 4 and 3 for years now because I don’t feel like all the trees and grass would die like that, especially after 200 years

[BigBossBalrog]

If the Legion larps as Romans, the Brotherhood larps as Knights, ya'll think larping as a Ronin with a sword would be out of place in Fallout 

[BigBossBalrog]

Wait wasn't there a literal Samurai in Mothership Zeta  Him and the cowboy were the best parts of the DLC.

[The Good Doctor]

1 hour ago, BigBossBalrog said:

If the Legion larps as Romans, the Brotherhood larps as Knights, ya'll think larping as a Ronin with a sword would be out of place in Fallout 

The Legion have a logical reason for why they’re like that, though. The BoS might too but I can’t remember it off the top of my head. I have a hard time thinking of a logical reason for a group to start dressing like samurai in postwar America. Not that it’s impossible; I’m sure a good writer could make it work.  

[BigBossBalrog]

I saw this in my feed. Kinda cool (getting alot of attention, over a million views now), but i'm wary after the Frontier