TheCzarsHussar Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 What about you @The Good Doctor? If you've played 2033 and/or Last Light, do you have any thoughts on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Just now, BigBossBalrog said: Hide contents Okay points where it's due, that's pretty spooks. But I do like the subtleness of the shadowy-ghosts more. That's shock value scary with a bunch of writhing arms grasping for you in agony. It's visually really good and artfully superior, buuuut, that's more nightmarish/hellish than the shadowy limbo of the dark tunnels. Of course I have a bias towards creepy ass shadow figures considering I had debilitating nightmares of them when I was younger, hell I had one like last year that fucked me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Anyways, i'd recomend doing another playthrough of Last Light. Play the Remastered version on one of the higher difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Just now, BigBossBalrog said: Anyways, i'd recomend doing another playthrough of Last Light. Play the Remastered version on one of the higher difficulties. Aight I'll take you up on that. The redux is only three or four dollars right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 3 hours ago, TheCzarsHussar said: What about you @The Good Doctor? If you've played 2033 and/or Last Light, do you have any thoughts on it? I've played both games and Exodus, and am a big fan of all three. In fact, the Metro trilogy is overall one of my favorite single player FPS series in existence. Probably second to Halo. Though I haven't beaten any of them more than twice just because they're all so damn stressful. I don't like comparing their themes and tones as imo it's fairly obvious that the intention from the beginning was to make each game unique in these regards. Metro is a pretty classic hero's journey that starts with the characters literally living in the dark and ends with them reclaiming the outside world having discovered a new way of life. It’s only natural that the vibes are very different depending on the stage you’re at. It is necessary for 2033 to be the most grim and cynical. The goal is to depict the messed up world state before the journey begins, which the whole point of the journey is to change. Things are so hopeless that pretty much nobody in the world even really entertains the thought that they could ever be better. Then it ends with a tragedy that the hero Artyom learns a lesson from. 2033 is the Abyss. Last Light is the follow-up to that. The Rebirth, Transformation, and Atonement. It's the part of the story where the hero, as a consequence of his prior struggles, becomes wiser, and develops a measure of hope that is otherwise nonexistent in the Metro. The game is still plenty bleak, but the oppressive cynicism of 2033 wouldn't work here, as the whole point is that Artyom is redeeming himself and starting to see that the world is not doomed. Exodus is the final stage of the hero's journey, where Artyom uses what he has learned in his newfound wisdom and shares it with his people. He has discovered a way out of their bleak and horrific existence, and is prepared to lead them down it to a better future. It's the brightest game in a very literal sense, as they have now exited the darkness and are pursuing a life where it can no longer threaten them. 2 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 As far as gameplay goes, the gunplay gets better and better with each iteration. The stealth and survival aspects were best in 2033, but that might be because I'm a glutton for punishment. Overall, LL is at a disadvantage because gameplay-wise, Exodus just took everything it did and improved on all of it. Except maybe set pieces. Last Light had some incredible set pieces. I loved all of the quieter moments in that game where you just got to holster your weapons and explore various towns and communities, interacting with the civilians, watching dances, playing guitar, shooting bottles, etc. It doubled as both gameplay and worldbuilding, and went a long way towards getting me to me join Artyom in his desire to help these people find a better life. Like I said, I can't judge tone objectively. Each game nails what is was going for, so it is entirely down to personal taste. I really really like the dark and uncertain yet hopeful (relatively) optimistic feeling that Exodus brings to the table, but I probably wouldn't appreciate it nearly as much if 2033 hadn't done such a stellar job of establishing how brutally awful things were before. The contrast is a big part of what makes the tone in Exodus so good. Story-wise, I'd have to replay them to give a confident opinion. In a vacuum, I'd imagine 2033 is the strongest on the basis that it stands alone really well and isn't reliant on the other two existing, but from what I remember of LL and Exodus, both of their stories can work alone as well. Still, the story is best when viewed as a whole. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 3 hours ago, TheCzarsHussar said: I know I keep drawing on this, but it's a lot like Fallout 1 vs 2 story and tone. I wouldn’t go this far. LL was just 2033 with a little hope injected into the main character and thus his story, but the Metro was still a brutally cynical place. It hasn’t changed that much. Fallout 1 was really damn dark, and even treaded into psychological horror territory. The most humorous moment was a soldier executing someone then waving at a camera afterwards. Fallout 2 by comparison was so campy it was practically a dark comedy. It’s not just character and story development like in LL. The world itself was rewritten into a goofier version of itself. A better comparison would be Fallout 1 to New Vegas. NV has a different tone, but it feels like a natural progression as the world gets more civilized. The original bleakness wouldn’t suit NV. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 You know a series is fucked up when they made the bad ending canon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: You know a series is fucked up when they made the bad ending canon I still have mad respect for that decision. I can’t think of any other time this has happened, but I wish more sequel writers had the balls to do it. There are so many games where the bad endings leave way more room for future conflicts. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: I still have mad respect for that decision. I can’t think of any other time this has happened, but I wish more sequel writers had the balls to do it. There are so many games where the bad endings leave way more room for future conflicts. XCOM 2; and that's only because the lose ratio for the original game was so high amongst players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: XCOM 2; and that's only because the loose ratio for the original game was so high amongst players Star Wars: Force Unleashed made its good ending canon, but had a really cool DLC expansion where you played an alternate future in which the bad ending happened. That’s the closest any other game I can think of has come. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 11 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: Hide contents I wouldn’t go this far. LL was just 2033 with a little hope injected into the main character and thus his story, but the Metro was still a brutally cynical place. It hasn’t changed that much. Fallout 1 was really damn dark, and even treaded into psychological horror territory. The most humorous moment was a soldier executing someone then waving at a camera afterwards. Fallout 2 by comparison was so campy it was practically a dark comedy. It’s not just character and story development like in LL. The world itself was rewritten into a goofier version of itself. A better comparison would be Fallout 1 to New Vegas. NV has a different tone, but it feels like a natural progression as the world gets more civilized. The original bleakness wouldn’t suit NV. I'm comparing it to Fallout 2 mostly for the sense of scale. New Vegas happens so long after the bombs fell that unlike the salty fanboys that stilly complain, I feel more than enough time has passed to where the scale feels justified. In 2033 the peak of fighting against humans is when the numerically inferior but much better armed Reich suddenly brings out a rail bound tank (which was awesome, I really love how common vehicles are in the metro, both with and without engines) which juxtaposed to everything else feels very big in scale. When you're fighting is almost entirely confined in tunnels, one football field sized tunnel feels like the entire eastern front of World War 2. But then in Last Light, the amount of heavy weaponry and soldiers the Red Line fields does suspend my disbelief. They are without a doubt (and confirmed in the books) the most populous faction in Moscow. However, they're needing a large portion of their army to occupy and police the satellite stations to keep them in line because everybody is miserable (well same elsewhere in the metro, but commies ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Should have been more specific there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 I wish Saints Row 3 had gone with the bad ending. I wasn’t a fan of that game, but at least the bad ending left the door open for a far better sequel. Instead they went with the good ending, which not only sucked as an ending, but also had basically no future story potential. So when they made a 4th game, it went completely off the rails and brought aliens and virtual reality superhero shit into a gangster series. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 14 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: I still have mad respect for that decision. I can’t think of any other time this has happened, but I wish more sequel writers had the balls to do it. There are so many games where the bad endings leave way more room for future conflicts. It does help when that's how the first book ended too. Metro 2033 is real faithful to it's source material, so the good ending is really more of an alternate ending rather than a true ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Diablo had a really fucked up example; The first game had you playing as a warrior named Aidan. You go into the bowels of hell, slay Diablo...and you found out he had possessed the corpse of a child (Your brother the Prince). As it turns out, Diablo can only take form after possessing someone, through his soul stone. So the Price in the bad ending decides take on Diablo's Soulstone into himself to prevent anyone from summoning him again, thinking he has the strength to resist...cue Diablo 2. He goes from this to this. and he's driven crazy and you fight the previous player as a boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: I'm comparing it to Fallout 2 mostly for the sense of scale. New Vegas happens so long after the bombs fell that unlike the salty fanboys that stilly complain, I feel more than enough time has passed to where the scale feels justified. In 2033 the peak of fighting against humans is when the numerically inferior but much better armed Reich suddenly brings out a rail bound tank (which was awesome, I really love how common vehicles are in the metro, both with and without engines) which juxtaposed to everything else feels very big in scale. When you're fighting is almost entirely confined in tunnels, one football field sized tunnel feels like the entire eastern front of World War 2. But then in Last Light, the amount of heavy weaponry and soldiers the Red Line fields does suspend my disbelief. They are without a doubt (and confirmed in the books) the most populous faction in Moscow. However, they're needing a large portion of their army to occupy and police the satellite stations to keep them in line because everybody is miserable (well same elsewhere in the metro, but commies ). Dude this is a world with mutant psionic monkeys who can control and distort perception around them, LITERALLY FUCKING GHOSTS AND DEMON DOORS THAT STEAL SOULS, and has a giant catfish the size of a Mosasaur eating people That's the thing that stretched you suspension of belief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Just now, BigBossBalrog said: Dude this is a world with mutant psionic monkeys who can control and distort perception around them, LITERALLY FUCKING GHOSTS AND DEMON DOORS THAT STEAL SOULS, and has a giant catfish the size of a Mosasaur eating people That's the thing that stretched you suspension of belief? When it comes to the very grounded humans, yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 minute ago, TheCzarsHussar said: It does help when that's how the first book ended too. Metro 2033 is real faithful to it's source material, so the good ending is really more of an alternate ending rather than a true ending. I’d rather leave out the books. It’s not like Witcher where the games seem to loosely follow the books’ canon up to a point. The Metro games are an alternate universe entirely. More like Nolan’s Dark Night movies compared to the Batman comics. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 minute ago, The Good Doctor said: I’d rather leave out the books. It’s not like Witcher where the games seem to loosely follow the books’ canon up to a point. The Metro games are an alternate universe entirely. More like Nolan’s Dark Night movies compared to the Batman comics. I've never even read the Metro books No problem ditching their canon for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 Just now, TheCzarsHussar said: When it comes to the very grounded humans, yes. Like I said, I’d need to replay them to be confident in saying whether I agree with your argument on the story or not. But I completely agree with this point just as a general rule. Just because a series has fantastical elements doesn’t mean that rules for reality no longer apply. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I mean they mention in the intro that the Reds have been super charging their conscription and arming their armies with stolen weapons. So I find it very easy to handwave. The Nazis and the Rangers are still far better equipped and trained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 I still think the tone of Last Light was consistent to that in 2033 though. Certainly more so than Fallout 1&2. If the presence of heavy weaponry and an increased scale in LL is illogical, then that’s a writing problem. But these things are treated with the same seriousness that they would’ve been had they been equally common in the first place, so I’d argue it’s not an issue of tone at all. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I always thought this was a really good marketing trailer I need to replay the Metro games now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: I mean they mention in the intro that the Reds have been super charging their conscription and arming their armies with stolen weapons. So I find it very easy to handwave. The Nazis and the Rangers are still far better equipped and trained. With the amount of firepower being used to attack D6, to the point where in the non-canon ending the Rangers had to Allah-Akbar their own base to prevent it being used, the only reason I'd believe the Red Line had this power if they killed off the Reich. Otherwise it brings up the question of why none of these munitions and t a n k s were used by the Red Line or even mentioned in 2033. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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