ColonelKillaBee Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Same, but I will get to it, I have an idea for something that I want Ubbe involved in with Baldur. 1 "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Sweet post @Centurion! Ubbe ain't no pawg. Mhh Mhh Mhh, Jhunal and Herma Mora being associated with each other. Glad to see we both consider that. Although I'm totally with Colonel in that the Fox represents Orkey and the Snake is Shor, not that I'm complaining. Ubbe is certainly a cool character. Definitely got the impression of solitude in your post. Interesting that he's dreaming about the ability to shout and being devoured right afterwards. Alduin getting jealous. Really can't wait to see Ubbe in battle, that mother fucker gonna make my Atmoraints say damn son. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, TheCzarsHussar said: Sweet post @Centurion! Ubbe ain't no pawg. Hide contents Mhh Mhh Mhh, Jhunal and Herma Mora being associated with each other. Glad to see we both consider that. Although I'm totally with Colonel in that the Fox represents Orkey and the Snake is Shor, not that I'm complaining. Ubbe is certainly a cool character. Definitely got the impression of solitude in your post. Interesting that he's dreaming about the ability to shout and being devoured right afterwards. Alduin getting jealous. Really can't wait to see Ubbe in battle, that mother fucker gonna make my Atmoraints say damn son. lol any association I made or seem to have made between Herma-Mora and Jhunal was accidental so you’ll have to explain that also, I just don’t feel the snake fits Shor. Plus if you look closely at the art designes for Skyrim in the Nordic crypts, the depictions of the Gods wall things, the Fox is male with a large X across his chest, signifying the missing heart. The Fox is clever, the snake is low down, like Orkey, who robbed the Nords of winters and tried to trick them into becoming Aldmer. 1 Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I still think it works both ways, since the trickster archetype is both associated with foxes and snakes. To elves, Lorkhan is the snake brand of trickster because he’s more of a devil figure who betrayed the gods. To Nords, Shor is the more positive fox brand of trickster because he’s cunning and resourceful but not evil. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: Hide contents I still think it works both ways, since the tricker archetype is both associated with foxes and snakes. To elves, Lorkhan is the snake brand of trickster because he’s more of a devil figure who betrayed the gods. To Nords, Shor is the more positive fox brand of trickster because he’s cunning and resourceful but not evil. I think it can work both ways as well, plus we can just say Baldurs interpretation of Shor and his totem comes from his Bruma upbringing or something. He does like to read elf shit afterall but yeah Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Centurion said: Reveal hidden contents I think it can work both ways as well, plus we can just say Baldurs interpretation of Shor and his totem comes from his Bruma upbringing or something. He does like to read elf shit afterall but yeah I imagine that there are Nords who see Shor as the snake too, but they’d probably be more like Loki from Vikings in the sense that their relationship with the gods goes to deeper and darker places than the Nordic mainstream. The sorts who actually do believe Shor betrayed the gods and is something of a devil figure, but worship him anyway because it worked to humanity’s benefit and that’s how things are in the Arena. Not too far from the Dunmer view on Lorkhan actually. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Centurion said: Hide contents I think it can work both ways as well, plus we can just say Baldurs interpretation of Shor and his totem comes from his Bruma upbringing or something. He does like to read elf shit afterall but yeah No way, you see that statue of Talos in Skyrim right? Plus there’s a very good chance Shor was a snake to the ancient Nords that belonged to the dragon cult since the dragon was at the top of the totem then. I had a theory that was the secret civil conflict they had that made Ysgramor flee, a prerequisite to the dragon war. That would have a lasting effect. Vigge also agreed with his interpretation as far as the rp is concerned. Also, even MK wrote Shor as a snake in shor son of Shor, coils and hooded like a cobra. 1 "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I especially don’t much care for the idea of Shor being a snake being less mainstream than the fox. Also there’s no X on the fox mural or gape in his chest "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Aside from all of that I just really love the relationship representation of Kyne as a hawk and Shor as a snake. There is so much you can do with that, especially with their ties to the thu’um and dragons. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I looked it up before I posted, it just looks like the necklace lines are connecting to the bones he’s wearing. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Also, Shor Son of Shor was made before Skyrim if I recall correctly so there’s a good chance that mural was made with Shor son of Shor in mind, even if ESO now has him as a fox. edit: Yep Feb 2, 2011 "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Don’t get me wrong @The Good Doctor I’m not saying the Fox is wrong but I think there’s as much a case for Shor being a snake even to Nords as there is his being a fox. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 MK’s writing means less to me than anything ever could. I’ve always upfront about that. even if it is just a necklace connecting to bones it still forms an X across the heart. Which is just as symbolic as if it was a natural X. Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Fair enough but the point about MK’s writing word for word matching the snake mural, a king cobra with a guy with scales wearing a hood and written before Skyrim came out is a pretty strong one if you ask me. Even if you hate MK’s writings there’s no denying that connection. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I also just don’t really see the X personally *shrug* Feels like a reach. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 And the X is plain as day to me. Agree to disagree. Besides there’s nothing saying people don’t interpret the gods differently, or the that they don’t reveal themselves differently to different people. Plus we have official lore now that supports Shor as the fox as opposed to a dude who likes to write fan fiction that people hype up sayinh he’s the snake. I just don’t buy it and I don’t feel it fits for Nordic worship Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Well I’ve slready established it’s a snake in the rp, and Bethesda’s borrowing of Shor Son of Shor’s representation of Shor supersedes ESO’s by years. Like I said, I didn’t say it was wrong but I also do not like new lore from a spin-off game suddenly kicking aside what we’ve established for years now in the rp. Your liking MK has nothing to do with this, that mural was clearly inspired by the writing. Its not fan fiction at that point. Im not arguing you changevwhat you wrote, like Doc said, both do work but I’m not down at all with the snake representation being cast aside as a fringe thing after being this far into the rp and me n Celan’s posts establishing it as a well known representation of Shor. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Besides, I don’t think the hardy death worshipping Nords would shy away from their king cobra Shor, he is a war chieftain and a terrible foe to his enemies after all. A king cobra with pharaoh imagery is perfect for that. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I’ll agree to disagree on the X, still seems like reaching for me. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 hours ago, TheCzarsHussar said: Sweet post @Centurion! Ubbe ain't no pawg. Hide contents Mhh Mhh Mhh, Jhunal and Herma Mora being associated with each other. Glad to see we both consider that. Although I'm totally with Colonel in that the Fox represents Orkey and the Snake is Shor, not that I'm complaining. Ubbe is certainly a cool character. Definitely got the impression of solitude in your post. Interesting that he's dreaming about the ability to shout and being devoured right afterwards. Alduin getting jealous. Really can't wait to see Ubbe in battle, that mother fucker gonna make my Atmoraints say damn son. Small correction, I always held that Orkey was the bear. The mural for bears has a lot of death imagery, orkey killed Shor, the mural looks like it depicts a giant, and the word for the giant god of death in Rome was “Orcus”. Plus he tried stealing the Nords years and manipulated time with Alduins ghost to do so. 1 "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: Well I’ve slready established it’s a snake in the rp, and Bethesda’s borrowing of Shor Son of Shor’s representation of Shor supersedes ESO’s by years. Like I said, I didn’t say it was wrong but I also do not like new lore from a spin-off game suddenly kicking aside what we’ve established for years now in the rp. Your liking MK has nothing to do with this, that mural was clearly inspired by the writing. Its not fan fiction at that point. Im not arguing you changevwhat you wrote, like Doc said, both do work but I’m not down at all with the snake representation being cast aside as a fringe thing after being this far into the rp and me n Celan’s posts establishing it as a well known representation of Shor. Never said I was trying to cast aside what you’ve wrote and established. I made a joke about Baldur being from Cyrodiil and being influenced by elves. Wasn’t serious. To Baldur, Shor is the snake. To Ubbe Shor is the fox. Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Shor has been represented as both a snake and a fox in the RP before Centurion’s post, so as far as the RP is concerned it’s not established “canon” any more than it is in the games. Your interpretation has just been the more prominent because your posts use more symbolism than most. 36 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: Besides, I don’t think the hardy death worshipping Nords would shy away from their king cobra Shor, he is a war chieftain and a terrible foe to his enemies after all. A king cobra with pharaoh imagery is perfect for that. I can see the rest (though I’d disagree with the mainstream point), but not this. Snakes aren’t associated with hardiness or strength. Death, yes, but death through lies, treachery, deceit, poison, etc. Not strength or even guile. As for ESO, I don’t know why they’d retcon it if their intent was ever to go with Shor being a snake to the Nords, but I’ll concede that it’s possible they did, or that there were some serious misunderstandings among the Beth team that only recently got wrapped up in favor of the fox. But either way, that game is canon and the lore from it will be what gets used in the main series going forward. So Shor’s totem being a fox to a large amount of Nords will get inserted into the lore retroactively just like the Dragon Wars and (some unfortunate) Nord changes were when Skyrim came out. Ideally, there will be some room for the snake to fit the bill as well, or at least some sort of explanation for the snake symbolism that exists, but we’ll have to wait and see for that. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I don’t recall Shor being represented as a fox but I think the fact that we’ve been in charge of Skyrim and handling the Shor representation for the most part definitely gives me some authority on the matter here... and the point about being hardy and death worshippers wasn’t that a snake represents these things, though I’d argue it does moreso than a fox, but that these people wouldn’t shy away from a snake god which y’all seem to think they would because snakes are considered bad by most, and the elves used this representation. I say that they could just as easily embrace this because obviously the elves are terrified by it. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, The Good Doctor said: But either way, that game is canon and the lore from it will be what gets used in the main series going forward. So Shor’s totem being a fox to a large amount of Nords will get inserted into the lore retroactively just like the Dragon Wars and (some unfortunate) Nord changes were when Skyrim came out. Ideally, there will be some room for the snake to fit the bill as well, or at least some sort of explanation for the snake symbolism that exists, but we’ll have to wait and see for that. I don’t at all agree with this either. For one eso is in the 2nd era, Skyrim takes place later on and for all we know the fox could be an outdated representation of Shor that no longer is present in the well, present. Especially since the next games very unlikely to even touch on this, there’s nothing backing this idea. Anyway as long as we’re agreed on the snake representation not being pushed aside suddenly I don’t much care. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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