The Good Doctor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Centurion said: not saying you have to be consistent across universes, but the staunch opposition across both situations is a direct contradiction of character lol. Not quite. I am personally against this sort of move by both Baldur and House. My argument the other day was that it was in-character for Baldur to do that, not that it was morally fine. Though I do think House’s act is the more heinous of the two because he doesn’t really get anything out of it and is targeting an independent faction who owe him nothing, have done nothing wrong, and exist to help others. At least the Orcs are in control of resources that the Nords consider theirs. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: House’s store is the Strip. If he wanted to rule Freeside too, he should have staked his claim when he retook the city. He’s ignored them for years allowed them to develop their own community, which starts to shape up somewhat with the Courier’s help. Personally, I don’t think that saving the city, miraculous as it was, is enough to make everyone in it subject to his ultimate will. Maybe in th Strip where he worked hard to build a community, but he hasn’t done a thing for Outer Vegas since he stopped the nukes. His store is the whole city and indeed region. Otherwise he couldn't have saved the city. He 'hasn't done a thing' is part of why I like his ending. Two facts you and Colonel are ignoring: The Kings' fate is entirely extra-game information which can play no part in a roleplay decision, and the region is at war, so House is directly intervening to prevent an invasion - as he sees it. 3 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: I'm not going to grovel and beg at House's feet for forgiveness. Step up. Admit you had somewhat of a hand in it, say to yourself that your going to do better this time, and don't let the shackles of the past effect you. Because it ultimately wasn't your fault. You're fighting for the future, not the past. You don't own House nuthin. Good thing I don't, either, then. The orc situation is Baldur sacrificing both short and long term gain for no reason, as I see it. So it's very much consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, Celan said: And you’re not supposed to be affected by what happened at all? Okay. I find that boring. No one is saying that though, we just respond to what happened much differently. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, Centurion said: It seemed like y’all have flip flopped on the same type of action between game universes. Like earlier it was an argument on the acceptability of kicking the orcs out without killing them for their ores and Colonel was for this whole Celan was staunchly against, no way, no how. And now it’s eh a group of Elvis cosplayers who help a downtrodden community the House gives no shits about gets slaughtered because they don’t want to leave their home after making peace with a group that House invites so he can keep his power. Celan = Perfect. Colonel and Doc = nah fam. not saying you have to be consistent across universes, but the staunch opposition across both situations is a direct contradiction of character lol. Oh and I stand with not killing the Kings on this argument Like I said before, Baldur’s actions came with a purpose at least and is the only way I’d ever come close to accepting such an action. House? 100% completely unnecessary. Nothing at all to gain from it. Even then I wouldn’t support an action like what Baldur has. I’m not a Nord, I don’t live in a kingdom. Baldur is just the character I am writing, he isn’t me. I’d have never killed Ulfric. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, Celan said: He 'hasn't done a thing' is part of why I like his ending. Two facts you and Colonel are ignoring: The Kings' fate is entirely extra-game information which can play no part in a roleplay decision, I’ll concede to this but there’s a lot that’s been in this discussion that is hindsight. I never said I was talking from a specifically roleplaying standpoint, so for me this was irrelevant unless you say that you specifically want to discuss with that perspective in mind. In which case I’ll just repeat that my roleplay was to look in the box... and although you stated you too can do that at the end, you’re also going by extra game information. I have no reason to believe that’ll be the case once House has everything he needs from me even if he does promise I’ll be his right hand man. That comes down to a matter of trust and roleplay wise I don’t trust him. Extra game info wise, I don’t trust him. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 As for being at war, if he thinks the kings will help the NCR when he’s at war with them and they’re independent based off of their helping out their citizens instead of killing them before this, citizens he himself said he wants around for trade, then House is a moron. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 You're justifying killing House based on 'I don't trust him'. He doesn't trust the Kings and wants them removed. Same thing. The fact that they decide to fight him rather than take their show on the road is moronic. As for him not needing you, that isn't true and he says so. Robots can only do so much. And you know his vulnerabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, Celan said: He 'hasn't done a thing' is part of why I like his ending. Two facts you and Colonel are ignoring: The Kings' fate is entirely extra-game information which can play no part in a roleplay decision, and the region is at war, so House is directly intervening to prevent an invasion - as he sees it. I’m not ignoring either of those facts. House “not doing a thing” is only a positive until he feels inclined to do something. That’s my problem with him. He isn’t some libertarian who is against using his power to fuck with people’s lives. He just doesn’t care about 90% of the Mojave enough to give them the time of day. If something makes him decide that he wants to, he won’t hesitate. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Celan said: You're justifying killing House based on 'I don't trust him'. He doesn't trust the Kings and wants them removed. Same thing. Except we are right about House, and he’s wrong about the Kings. Which would be easily apparent if he took ten seconds to actually look into the matter before going all tyrant on them. 3 minutes ago, Celan said: As for him not needing you, that isn't true and he says so. Robots can only do so much. And you know his vulnerabilities. He doesn’t only have robots. He’s got three tribes at his back, and is the richest man alive, easily capable of hiring whatever help he needs. He only needs the Courier until the Dam is secure. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Exactly. House Had absolutely no reason not to trust the Kings. It’s not even remotely the same thing. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 What you do once, you could do again. All it would take would be to infiltrate and pull his plug. The tribes are no more relevant than they are in the game. And you’re not right about House, IMO. Thus the point has come back around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 All house literally has to do is lock you out of the damn tower. Then you cant infiltrate a thing. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 21 minutes ago, Celan said: What you do once, you could do again. All it would take would be to infiltrate and pull his plug. The tribes are no more relevant than they are in the game. The tribes were extremely relevant. They are the reason that the NCR didn’t take New Vegas when they first arrived. 21 minutes ago, Celan said: And you’re not right about House, IMO. Thus the point has come back around. So House doesn’t wipe out the Kings? Because if he does, then we’re right about him. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 It just seems...petty to me. There's already a thin line between tyrant and benevolent dictator. I'm all for an authoritarian government that acts in the best interests of the people if it acts in the best interests of the people (like how I view Anor Londo or Settra) it's all about the situation. Order is very important. (I am a Templar fag after all ) However the way House nonchalantly exterminates the Kings seems...like he was swatting away a fly. He had no reason to do it. No gain from doing it. But since they we're annoyance he slaughtered them. It was pointless. Which implies to me, he's willing to do it again. Swat away something that isn't a threat, just for his amusement. You don't want people like that in charge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Just now, BigBossBalrog said: However the way House nonchalantly exterminates the Khan's seems You mean Kings, right? The NCR are the ones who want to get rid of the Khans. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: (I am a Templar fag after all ) We will take Jerusalem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: You mean Kings, right? The NCR are the ones who want to get rid of the Khans. Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 He does have a reason, you just don't agree with it. Neither do I but I don't consider their choice to fight him a reason to put the whole city at risk. That's where you're wrong about House @The Good Doctor. IMO. The tribes aren't relevant to the Courier's checkmate on House. What you did, you can do again, or undo. If needed - and nothing says it will be. I really give a fuck about the Kings, if I'm honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 That much is evident. Like I said, if he decided he was done with you, all he’d have to do is lock the door. You were only able to get to him because he let you. You’re entirely reliant on that. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said: We will take Jerusalem? Nah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Fucking Siri. Edited "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witchking of Angmar Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 One thing I want to question is if the Kings are really that altruistic. I admit they are pretty nice, but their quest with the scoundrel bodyguard is literally about them wanting rid of competition. Power corrupts, absolute power... is a whole lot of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Witchking of Angmar said: One thing I want to question is if the Kings are really that altruistic. I admit they are pretty nice, but their quest with the scoundrel bodyguard is literally about them wanting rid of competition. Competition that they suspected had an unfair advantage. Nothing more. And better yet, the King was right. Dude was scamming people. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I was just saying such hard stances on two situations that are very similar is kind of comical. I see where the benefits come from the displacement of the orcs, but not the slaughter of the Kings. ”He sees them as a threat” a threat to what? His army of ultra murder robots? Fuck no don’t give me that. ”They made peace which the NCR so they were laying with an invader” House invites them there, sets up an embassy, signs a treaty with them barring them from keeping their citizens away. And uses there military as a buffer between him and the Legion. Then when he wins he kicks them out and gives 5% power, afterwards he views those who adapted to his policy are labeled enemies and killed. Fuck that. 1 Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: That much is evident. Like I said, if he decided he was done with you, all he’d have to do is lock the door. You were only able to get to him because he let you. You’re entirely reliant on that. But you're assuming the Courier can introduce technological marvels and whatever else. Mmkay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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