Roleplayer’s Off Topic Thread #5

[ColonelKillaBee]

 Yeah that ending actually made me feel more safe choosing 

Especially Sawyer confirming that yes man’s ending doesn’t actually have any sort of ominous implication. I used to worry that yes-man’s last words to you was hinting at a possibility of him betraying you or something. Apparently I wasn’t the only one that thought that, so he had to clarify that all he meant was that yes man wouldn’t let anyone else control him so easily. Or at all, rather. Just you.

[ColonelKillaBee]

Plus I get to throw Oliver off the motherfucking dam. That’s hard to beat.

[Centurion]

Just now, ColonelKillaBee said:

 Yeah that ending actually made me feel more safe choosing 

Especially Sawyer confirming that yes man’s ending doesn’t actually have any sort of ominous implication. I used to worry that yes-man’s last words to you was hinting at a possibility of him betraying you or something. Apparently I wasn’t the only one that thought that, so he had to clarify that all he meant was that yes man wouldn’t let anyone else control him so easily. Or at all, rather. Just you.

Oh, I always thought The was Yesman kinda saving that he was “Da Captain Now” 

[The Good Doctor]

5 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

 Especially Sawyer confirming that yes man’s ending doesn’t actually have any sort of ominous implication. I used to worry that yes-man’s last words to you was hinting at a possibility of him betraying you or something. Apparently I wasn’t the only one that thought that, so he had to clarify that all he meant was that yes man wouldn’t let anyone else control him so easily. Or at all, rather. Just you.

Yeah, the vagueness of Yes Man’s statements there was something that Obsidian admitted their mistake on. What’s funny is that the true meaning of his words is actually a huge comfort, as it prevents you from being betrayed like Benny. But his wording made it sound worse than it was. 

[The Good Doctor]

2 minutes ago, Centurion said:

Oh, I always thought The was Yesman kinda saving that he was “Da Captain Now” 

Lots of people thought that at the start. They had to come out and clarify it wasn’t the case.  Wild Card probably wouldn’t have been such a popular ending among their team if it had ended with Skynet taking over.

[ColonelKillaBee]

He’s so creepy that I fully believed he could  

[The Good Doctor]

8 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Yeah that ending actually made me feel more safe choosing 

And how badass a quote is this?

“The world outside belonged to the Courier, and if anyone would shape it... well, the Courier had already called dibs.”

[ColonelKillaBee]

Just now, The Good Doctor said:

And how badass a quote is this?

“The world outside belonged to the Courier, and if anyone would shape it... well, the Courier had already called dibs.”

Not only that but with his/her dialogue choices I wouldn’t doubt he literally did call dibs.

[The Good Doctor]

7 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Not only that but with his/her dialogue choices I wouldn’t doubt he literally did call dibs.

Probably.  That’s basically what we can tell Oliver.  

[TheCzarsHussar]

Wow, I had just finished rereading The end of Eternity and I gotta say I'm very pleased on my second read.

Seeing the twists again did not at all lesson the experience, instead looking back at the many subtle hints put on a new perspective. Nothing written in that book is without purpose, there isn't one single bit of fluff or filler. Secondly like I said before having read his Foundation novels and seeing his universe come to a satisfying conclusion, going back and rereading the book that starts everything else in his timeline was heartwarming.

It is a huge travesty that none of his books ever got a proper film treatment, lookin' at you I'Robot. I pretty well close saying there is a good reason Asimov is so highly regarded in literature.

[TheCzarsHussar]

Doc don't read.

 

I almost left the computer but just wanted to say one last thing, I love the sci-fi themes in the book as well. Which I can't go into detail with in the slightest without spoiling it, I'll say it's themes are somewhat melancholic but ends on an optimistic note.

Edited March 16, 2018 by TheCzarsHussar

[Celan]

7 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

It says he accuses them of lying with a foreign invader (those “invaders” being citizens, not soldiers)... the same invaders that he invited to his city in the first place and has built an elaborate plan around establishing a friendly relationship with. Invaders whose business he needs to keep his city alive. 

The Kings making Freeside safer for NCR travelers is nothing but a benefit for House. They are an armed faction but not a militant one, and never had any interest in bothering House. There is no good justification for what he did.

It’s also telling that the only way House favors the Kings is if they outright attack innocent travelers who he himself wants business from. I don’t see how this is a point in his favor. 

Because that is a result he can manage. My point is that he didn't just smash them because he didn't like their goofy hair, it's that he saw them as a fifth column threat.

Not saying I agree with him. But don't act like killing House and setting yourself up as potentate is any different.

6 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

And how badass a quote is this?

“The world outside belonged to the Courier, and if anyone would shape it... well, the Courier had already called dibs.”

Has no appeal for me. Like I said, any kind of megalomaniac ego my Courier had went kablooey after seeing LR. She's still around to help fix things, but someone with a superbrain is also watching the store.

I have no doubt that the ending is popular with a lot of people. Your PC is all-knowing, infinitely capable god, what could go wrong? I just don't prefer it. As always YMMV.

[Witchking of Angmar]

My biggest problem with House is that he wants to destroy the BoS. Whom I kinda like. That’s the real reason I in a way prefer Yes Man over House. Even though I know it means throwing New Vegas to the whims of fate a couple decades later.

As for House killing the Kings, I find it highly odd. To the point that I feel there’s been a writing error as destroying the Kings for helping NCR citizens that help enrich Vegas seems very illogical. I think the whole thing could have gotten a better explanation as to why House considers the Kings a liability.

[The Good Doctor]

2 hours ago, Celan said:

Not saying I agree with him. But don't act like killing House and setting yourself up as potentate is any different.

I will because it is. Lives are saved by killing House. It can be justified for reasons besides ambition. There is no positive in killing the Kings. 

And I find it hard to believe that the smartest man in the world, who was two steps ahead of the NCR and Legion at the same time, truly gave the King situation any kind of attention and still believed they were a theat. He either murdered a large number of people without even devoting much attention to discovering if they deserved it, or he murdered them for for petty reasons. 

3 hours ago, Celan said:

Has no appeal for me.

Personally, I find the idea of a redemption arc for the Courier very appealing. Create and then destroy a developing nation out of negligence, enter a situation where it could happen again, but learn enough lessons along the way to grow as a person and put more thought into your actions and decisions. Apply those lessons to the Mojave and do better this time. There is a reason why the battle at the Divide can be verbal. Ulysses will only go along with what you’re doing if you can convince him that you have changed enough to put some serious thought into what you’re doing. 

[Celan]

I imagine it could be as simple as the writers wanting there to be unforeseen consequences to your decisions. 

I doubt House put a lot of thought into it, too. But he didn't just kill them, he gave them a choice to leave and they decided to take their chances. I'm not going to potentially doom Vegas for it. Even if that weren't OOC information. 

I see the independent ending as your standard power fantasy. I prefer to believe what the Courier sees in LR and the interaction with Ulysses has an influence on her decisions.

[The Good Doctor]

18 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

As for House killing the Kings, I find it highly odd. To the point that I feel there’s been a writing error as destroying the Kings for helping NCR citizens that help enrich Vegas seems very illogical. I think the whole thing could have gotten a better explanation as to why House considers the Kings a liability

I agree that it’s illogical, but I don’t think it’s an error. I think the point is that House doesn’t spare two thoughts for people so far below him. The NCR and Legion are worth attention, but he Kings? Eh. What they did is kinda annoying. No harm in squashing them. He displayed the same lack of fucks with regards to Freeside, Vault 21, and the BoS. 

Though I do think he was right about the BoS. But he applies the logic he used to kill them across the board. 

[ColonelKillaBee]

I see independent Vegas as the only real chance for a libertarian do what you want ending even if it is a power trip fantasy, which would rely entirely upon you, if it is one or not.

Being that it’s a roleplaying game, I’m ok with that.

[ColonelKillaBee]

I also don’t get how Lonesome Road could kill someone’s connfidence so badly, all it taught me is that some things are just truly out of your hands and how easy things could fall apart.

It taught my character caution and to not blindly do as you’re told. But to each their own.

[Celan]

15 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

I will because it is. Lives are saved by killing House. It can be justified for reasons besides ambition. There is no positive in killing the Kings. 

And I find it hard to believe that the smartest man in the world, who was two steps ahead of the NCR and Legion at the same time, truly gave the King situation any kind of attention and still believed they were a theat. He either murdered a large number of people without even devoting much attention to discovering if they deserved it, or he murdered them for for petty reasons. 

Personally, I find the idea of a redemption arc for the Courier very appealing. Create and then destroy a developing nation out of negligence, enter a situation where it could happen again, but learn enough lessons along the way to grow as a person and put more thought into your actions and decisions. Apply those lessons to the Mojave and do better this time. There is a reason why the battle at the Divide can be verbal. Ulysses will only go along with what you’re doing if you can convince him that you have changed enough to put some serious thought into what you’re doing. 

You can only assume you are saving lives if you assume your PC is omniscient. With imperfect information,  I don't consider that a foregone conclusion. Your character is deciding who is a threat and who's not and setting yourself up as sole ruler of the domain.  It's the same thing. 

House saved the entire city. From a moral standpoint,  he's got a lot of karma points on you.

[ColonelKillaBee]

2 minutes ago, Celan said:

You can only assume you are saving lives if you assume your PC is omniscient. With imperfect information,  I don't consider that a foregone conclusion. Your character is deciding who is a threat and who's not and setting yourself up as sole ruler of the domain.  It's the same thing. 

Better than having someone tell me who is and isn’t a threat and following orders blindly which is the actual way that you caused the divide. 

“Take the chip here. Do as I say don’t question it.”

”Take the package here. Don’t look in the box just deliver the package.”

”Kill them, let them live. I know what I’m doing don’t question me.”

At least when I’m deciding who’s a threat and when I’m making decisions I’m considering my steps. If you ask me that’s easily the takeaway a courier can have from Lonesome Road.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Just now, Celan said:

You can only assume you are saving lives if you assume your PV is omniscient. With imperfect information,  I don't consider that a foregone conclusion. Your character is deciding who is a threat and who's not and setting yourself up as sole ruler of the domain.  It's the same thing. 

You can assume you’re going to save lives just by knowing who House is. The Kings are not the only people House treats this way, they’re just the worst case. People all throughout the game convinced me to go Wild Card instead of House, not the ending slide.

10 minutes ago, Celan said:

But he didn't just kill them, he gave them a choice to leave and they decided to take their chances. I'm not going to potentially doom Vegas for it. Even if that weren't OOC information. 

Yeah, and I’m not willing to accept the murder of one of the most altruistic factions in the series to turn Vegas into the super power House would undoubtedly create.

13 minutes ago, Celan said:

I see the independent ending as your standard power fantasy. I prefer to believe what the Courier sees in LR and the interaction with Ulysses has an influence on her decisions.

And I see the House ending as empowering a man who has a god complex. The difference is that the independent ending can be total chaotic anarchy, a House-like power fantasy, or anything in between. The Courier is the deciding variable, and that can mean different things across playthroughs. But House is constant.

And you’re not the only one who thinks LR has influence on their character’s thoughts or decisions. Mine just reached a different conclusion than yours.

[The Good Doctor]

4 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

At least when I’m deciding who’s a threat and when I’m making decisions I’m considering my steps. If you ask me that’s easily the takeaway a courier can have from Lonesome Road.

Exactly. I feel like Wild Card supporters get written off as choosing it because it strokes our egos, never mind that we’ve put as much thought into our choice as anyone.

The Courier isn’t as smart as House. That’s obvious. We won’t have people colonizing distant planets in a couple hundred years. But we experience things that House never could. Things that give us perspectives and teach lessons that he hasn’t learned. I don’t just think the Courier is a better leader for the Mojave because it makes me feel cool. I think he is because the game builds a framework to support that possibility.  

[Celan]

25 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

I also don’t get how Lonesome Road could kill someone’s connfidence so badly, all it taught me is that some things are just truly out of your hands and how easy things could fall apart.

It taught my character caution and to not blindly do as you’re told. But to each their own.

To me it's pretty simple. You caused a nuclear holocaust,  however unknowingly, and House prevented one. It stands to reason you working together is a better plan than you working alone.

14 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

You can assume you’re going to save lives just by knowing who House is. The Kings are not the only people House treats this way, they’re just the worst case. People all throughout the game convinced me to go Wild Card instead of House, not the ending slide.

Yeah, and I’m not willing to accept the murder of one of the most altruistic factions in the series to turn Vegas into the super power House would undoubtedly create.

And I see the House ending as empowering a man who has a god complex. The difference is that the independent ending can be total chaotic anarchy, a House-like power fantasy, or anything in between. The Courier is the deciding variable, and that can mean different things across playthroughs. But House is constant.

And you’re not the only one who thinks LR has influence on their character’s thoughts or decisions. Mine just reached a different conclusion than yours.

I can assume that based on the fact that there's a city to even debate about.

And of course you can conclude otherwise. To me the independent ending is boring and unsatisfying. 

[The Good Doctor]

2 minutes ago, Celan said:

To me it's pretty simple. You caused a nuclear holocaust,  however unknowingly, and House prevented one. It stands to reason you working together is a better plan.

That’s the whole point of an arc. Some people like to imagine that their Courier is actually a different person than they were when that happened.

I give House full credit for saving Vegas. That doesn’t give him the right to do whatever he wants to whoever he wants afterwards. Least not in my eyes. 

[ColonelKillaBee]

35 minutes ago, Celan said:

To me it's pretty simple. You caused a nuclear holocaust,  however unknowingly, and House prevented one. It stands to reason you working together is a better plan than you working alone.

 

That’s so hand wavy. Like I said, the devil is in the details.

I don’t work alone which is why I have friends and allies.