The Good Doctor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Celan said: Weelll, that faction of the BoS isn't exactly... competent. Or anything. They are competent. They only lost to the NCR outnumbered 20 to 1, and they have the technology to do some serious damage. House’s own probability calculators have told him as much. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 minute ago, BigBossBalrog said: I think everyone has double standards here. We're all engaging in a little hypocrisy Balrog, I love you buddy. But fuck that. I’ve been pretty consistent in my belief that both acts are bad, and I think Colonel has too. The defense of the Orc treatment is in character, not our own personal beliefs. 2 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said: It's different then what House did to the Kings. I never made that comparison in the first place and I'm so over it. @The Good Doctor Well I indeed am going on bias there, because to me they seem pretty pathetic. Anyway here is the dialogue. @ColonelKillaBee You can show some respect regardless of disagreement. I already agreed to go along with whatever you wanted with the orcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBossBalrog Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 minute ago, The Good Doctor said: Balrog, I love you buddy. But fuck that. I’ve been pretty consistent in my belief that both acts are bad, and I think Colonel has too. The defense of the Orc treatment is in character, not our own personal beliefs. Kinda confused, because this debate is like 15 pages long, but if that's the case, then I apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Celan said: Well I indeed am going on bias there, because to me they seem pretty pathetic. Anyway here is the dialogue. I’ve seen it. I also think that they only appear pathetic because they’re being viewed in relation to other BoS chapters we’ve seen, who are typically regional powerhouses. This is the first time we’ve seen them depicted on the losing side. Personally, I think that any faction who numbers in the dozens (or possibly more, lore-wise) and are all equipped with power armor and big energy weapons, whose every man is worth twenty regular soldiers, are worth being taken seriously. Even if you think they are pathetic, they are still a serious threat. Sure, they won’t be conquering Vegas, but they could do a lot of damage and could be a lot harder to take out once the NCR is gone and they have the freedom to mobilize again. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Just saying, if House is sold on killing the Kings for sharing food with “enemies”, then I don’t think he’s gonna overlook a hyper zealous faction of tech raiders whose MO is to keep outsiders like him from controlling the very sort of technology that he relies on. I’m 100% with House on this one. Veronica’s quest even confirms that they have accepted that they will die for their beliefs. Their own members can’t reason with them. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I don't disagree with him, either, except that in comparison to the Legion and NCR, they're small potatoes. You've got other mirelurks to fry and asking you to take them on singlehandedly is a dangerous distraction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 @Celan I haven’t been disrespectful. At least not when it comes to me pointing out your stance seems biased. If there’s anything I could’ve been nicer on it’s when I said your “only results matter” comments seemed lazy. That, Ill apologize for, but it’s hardly any harsher than what you and I or anyone here has said in a heated debate. I didn’t mean for any of this to get personal, I really didn’t. But I don’t think I should have to apologize for saying something that seems true. Bias is very real in debates, I am guilty for it too, but, with all due respect I think yours in this debate is more blatant, enough that I felt it warranted mentioning. Again, I didn’t mean for anything to get heated but I simply called things as I saw it, and don’t feel I was disrespectful overall. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Celan said: I don't disagree with him, either, except that in comparison to the Legion and NCR, they're small potatoes. You've got other mirelurks to fry and asking you to take them on singlehandedly is a dangerous distraction. I agree that they’re smaller potatoes. But the point of taking them out before the NCR and Legion is that the vacuum those factions leave behind will make the BoS much more of a threat than they currently are. It’s a dangerous task, certainly, but it will be even more so if taken on later. Better to finish them while they’re down than wait for them to get back up. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: @Celan I haven’t been disrespectful. At least not when it comes to me pointing out your stance seems biased. You insist it's personal bias with no other rationale and go on for several posts asserting that it is, when I've laid out my reasoning over multiple pages. Say what you will, but if I had done that to you, you'd be pissed. Now granted, I did say earlier that I found the Yes Man ending to be a standard power fantasy etc., but when you and Doc responded that it wasn't so for you, I said nothing more about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Favorite thing- getting off work and immediately getting naked. The small pleasures of life Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, Celan said: Now granted, I did say earlier that I found the Yes Man ending to be a standard power fantasy etc., but when you and Doc responded that it wasn't so for you, I said nothing more about it. Just a little clarification on the power fantasy thing from my own perspective. I won’t pretend that I don’t find the Wild Card ending to be immensely cool and satisfying on a base level. Which is why I like to fawn over Indy Courier quotes. But as you know, my support for it comes entirely from my values, not how satisfying it is. I bet you could get a similar sentiment from Centurion and the NCR. The Rangers and the soldier culture probably tickle his fancy quite well. How can anybody think those Veterans aren’t insanely badass? But he supports the faction for more legitimate and thought-out reasons than that. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 A laissez faire technocrat hits my personal biases the right way, in this case. Of course people have preferences that can be both personal and reasoned. Mostly I think we reason post hoc, and I don't deny that I do that. I do find it odd that it would be assumed that in Baldur vs. the orcs, I would side with orcs simply because I like the race. Because... I don't like Baldur... or something? I mean, my character did marry him. My rationale was from a Nord perspective too, just not the one you guys seem to share. And I argue it vigorously because I have a stake in it, especially with Mazoga/ Rebec. Moreover I think when someone denies that their perspective is all personal bias, one shouldn't just go on and insist that it is. Even out of simple politeness. Enough said on that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I honestly didn’t pay much attention to most of the Orc stuff today because I was really only interested in discussing New Vegas. I was enjoying our debate and didn’t much care to delve back into an older one. At least as far as it went in relation to bias. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: I bet you could get a similar sentiment from Centurion and the NCR. The Rangers and the soldier culture probably tickle his fancy quite well. How can anybody think those Veterans aren’t insanely badass? But he supports the faction for more legitimate and thought-out reasons than that. Doc hit the nail on the head with the soldier culture and the Rangers. As for my thought out reasons, yes I support them because they are a government that I am familiar with. Sure the Republic system isn’t perfect, in our world or in New Vegas, but it is the best one out there, to me. I will acknowledge the fact that the NCR is dealing with some shit, like the Brahmin Barron’s and an over zealous imperialist president, but I still stand by them because I think they are the best option for the wastland (atleast the West Coast, because we all know who my boys really are) Edited March 17, 2018 by Centurion 1 Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Centurion said: I still stand by them because I think they are the best option for the wastland (atleast the West Coast, because we all know who my boys really are) I do agree here. At least for much of the wasteland. The Mojave is one of the exceptions because I don’t think they get as much out of the deal as, say, the Boneyard or Baja. Or most of California for that matter. The NCR have many flaws, some of which could even end up being fatal, but I want them to succeed as a nation. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 29 minutes ago, Celan said: I do find it odd that it would be assumed that in Baldur vs. the orcs, I would side with orcs simply because I like the race. Because... I don't like Baldur... or something? I mean, my character did marry him. My rationale was from a Nord perspective too, just not the one you guys seem to share. And I argue it vigorously because I have a stake in it, especially with Mazoga/ Rebec. Moreover I think when someone denies that their perspective is all personal bias, one shouldn't just go on and insist that it is. Even out of simple politeness. Enough said on that. You said that Mazoga had no personal stake when I asked, and said as a city orc she’d be fine with pushing out stubborn Orcs that didn’t agree to their terms. So I don’t see why either of them would much care unless you aim to change that. So from my perspective it seemed odd you’d be so insistent on this being something your main character mainly would much care about... especially when it’s for Skyrim’s sake as a whole, their children’s sake and Rebec told Baldur on multiple occasions, do what he thinks is necessary so they can go back home. Now I’m fine with letting them hash things out in the ic, said as much. It just seems very odd to me where you stand on it whilst standing with House on a somewhat similar issue except his is far more extreme. Me stating you have bias ain’t any different from what I’ve said to others here when I thought they were biased. Said as much to Centurion involving the NCR, said as much to Balrog with Romans. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 56 minutes ago, Celan said: You insist it's personal bias with no other rationale and go on for several posts asserting that it is, when I've laid out my reasoning over multiple pages. Say what you will, but if I had done that to you, you'd be pissed. Now granted, I did say earlier that I found the Yes Man ending to be a standard power fantasy etc., but when you and Doc responded that it wasn't so for you, I said nothing more about it. Sorry to say it again but I simply found your rationale for hand waving the kings murder pretty weak. That only results matter. If that’s the case shouldn’t it be the same for how Baldur goes about winning this war? You stayed your reasons yes. That they’re skilled labor and the like. And I said skyrim has skilled labor, and that’s true. There’s no reason to believe committing the resources of their military, one that is merely sitting on their thumbs gThering strength, to claim practically untouched sources of ore aka money is not worth it. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 And even if the ores were somehow a bust, assuming someone found some lore that made me unable to write it as anything but, at least my attempt is more justified than House’s reasoning. If I’m wrong someone tell me. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I won’t lie, it does make me a bit frustrated. I wasn’t frustrated before, but now after looking at this debate and how adamant you were opposing this plan vs how adamantly you defended House’s actions, I am. It makes no sense as I see it. But like I said before, I am fine letting it go to IC. My only reason for pointing it out before was because Centurion pointed out how strange the flip flopping was and I too noticed the contradiction. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 And it’s not like bias was my only comment, we’ve been going tit for tat a while now and I made my bewilderment at some of your statements pretty plain. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Its been too long since I played Oblivion, what region of Cyrodiil has the largest geography? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, TheCzarsHussar said: Its been too long since I played Oblivion, what region of Cyrodiil has the largest geography? County Bruma. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 County Cheydinhal is very large as well. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCzarsHussar Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, The Good Doctor said: County Bruma. No shit really? I could have sworn it was mountainous around Bruma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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