Roleplayer's Off Topic Thread #24

[ColonelKillaBee]

9 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Weebs.  

Weebs and Neo Nazis  

[BigBossBalrog]

2 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Weebs and Neo Nazis  

Neo Nazis are usually weebs you mean  

But yeah, they usually have a hardon for Imperial Japan. Which I find boggling. 

[Witchking of Angmar]

27 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

But no, the Mueller report didn’t find squat. They wasted millions of dollars for absolutely nothing. Just political bullshit.

It didn't find anything directly linking Trump to it but it apparently did find enough to put one or more of his former election staff members behind bars. Which isn't nothing. 

33 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

In any case, if they did I wouldn’t be surprised but strangely enough I kinda hope they are to combat the liberalism of their enemies since it’s giving a foothold to people we all mutually hate, terrorists.

You don't want it like they have it in Russia. The place is such a corrupt oligarchy. I remember reading how a mall burnt down and the firefighters waited to put out the fires because they had to get some go-ahead from an official higher up. Worst part there was this cinema where people were trapped because the emergency exits didn't work, because reasons linked to corruption. Lots of people died in the fire. Now the relatives of the victims are being harassed for trying to bring up and fix the issues that led to these deaths. 

17 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

The Russia social media interference in elections is so overblown it’s almost funny. It’s like a few tens of thousands of dollars in campaign ads. Basically nothing and lots of countries do it. And to my understanding, at least in the US, it’s not even illegal. They didn’t hack or rig anything. It was just ads talking bad about candidates.

The response had waaaay more of an effect than the actual effort, which was of course by design. They knew what they were doing. 

It still shows that foreign influence and meddling, especially through social media, is a thing and something we have to be aware of. 

[BigBossBalrog]

Putin is is also known to arrest and even kill his rivals. He isn't someone you want to look up to at all. 

[The Good Doctor]

2 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

It didn't find anything directly linking Trump to it but it apparently did find enough to put one or more of his former election staff members behind bars. Which isn't nothing. 

Not for colluding with Russia. That’s the lie that the media tells by omitting key info. Those staffers were all arrested for unrelated crimes that were uncovered during the investigation and had nothing to do with Trump. Like mortgage fraud and shit like that. The whole thing was a political hit job.

6 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

It still shows that foreign influence and meddling, especially through social media, is a thing and something we have to be aware of. 

Why? Honestly why should I give a shit if some Russians or anyone else pays their own money (and a hilariously insignificant amount at that) to legally post ads on Facebook, a website anyone can use, in opposition to a leader they don’t support?

[The Good Doctor]

8 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

Putin is is also known to arrest and even kill his rivals. He isn't someone you want to look up to at all. 

I’d love to know how much of what our verifiably dishonest and biased media and leaders have told us about Russia is true and how much is propaganda. Not saying Putin isn’t a brutal dude, he was KGB after all, but there’s two sides of every story. And in the case of Russia, we only get our side from people who literally want war with them. When was the last time a group didn’t demonize the ones they want war with?

[ColonelKillaBee]

And so far all I’ve seen from Putin is him fighting terrorists and taking a population that wanted to be a part of Russia mostly anyway.

[ColonelKillaBee]

He is a thug tho, lol I remember reading about him stealing some athletes ring by “borrowing it” and just walking away  

[ColonelKillaBee]

22 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

You don't want it like they have it in Russia. The place is such a corrupt oligarchy. I remember reading how a mall burnt down and the firefighters waited to put out the fires because they had to get some go-ahead from an official higher up. Worst part there was this cinema where people were trapped because the emergency exits didn't work, because reasons linked to corruption. Lots of people died in the fire. Now the relatives of the victims are being harassed for trying to bring up and fix the issues that led to these deaths. 

You’re preaching to the choir lol the last thing any red blooded gun toting burger eating American wants is to be like Russia.

Im just saying, if their meddling helps the ouroboros left consume itself quicker, then some good would have come of it.

And seeing as they’re one of the few doing something about ISIS, they’re not currently on my shitlist.

[Witchking of Angmar]

6 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Not for colluding with Russia. That’s the lie that the media tells by omitting key info. Those staffers were all arrested for unrelated crimes that were uncovered during the investigation and had nothing to do with Trump. Like mortgage fraud and shit like that. The whole thing was a political hit job.

To me it seems like the intelligence service doing their jobs. If there is any indication Trump did conspire with a foreign power it's important to find out if it's true or not. If there were indications if Hillary had won that she had conspired with China I'm sure a lot of people would have wanted an investigation. 

14 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Why? Honestly why should I give a shit if some Russians or anyone else pays their own money (and a hilariously insignificant amount at that) to legally post ads on Facebook, a website anyone can use, in opposition to a leader they don’t support?

Same reason one should be aware of anyone else trying to influence you. I think there's a certain value in knowing where a certain piece of information comes from. 

15 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

I’d love to know how much of what our verifiably dishonest and biased media and leaders have told us about Russia is true and how much is propaganda. Not saying Putin isn’t a brutal dude, he was KGB after all, but there’s two sides of every story. And in the case of Russia, we only get our side from people who literally want war with them. When was the last time a group didn’t demonize the ones they want war with?

I feel I can trust my country's news regarding Russia for the most part. While we may not like Russia and are a lot of the times passive aggressive towards each other, we also rather not get involved with them at all. 

[The Good Doctor]

Just now, Witchking of Angmar said:

To me it seems like the intelligence service doing their jobs. If there is any indication Trump did conspire with a foreign power it's important to find out if it's true or not. If there were indications if Hillary had won that she had conspired with China I'm sure a lot of people would have wanted an investigation. 

You’re seriously underestimating how corrupt our bureaucrats are. There have been plenty of indications that Clinton did things that were illegal and we have FBI officials who straight up said that they brushed that whole affair aside to focus on Trump, then after three years of allowing the whole world to believe he was a Russian puppet (permanently damaging his reputation), they came up with nothing. Some of the top agents involved with the investigation were blatantly biased to the point of absurdity, with texts between them before the election literally saying that they needed to stop him from winning. 

6 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

Same reason one should be aware of anyone else trying to influence you. I think there's a certain value in knowing where a certain piece of information comes from. 

If it’s true, I don’t care where it comes from. If it’s a lie, then I consider it less of a problem from foreigners than I do from my own countrymen.

7 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

I feel I can trust my country's news regarding Russia for the most part. While we may not like Russia and are a lot of the times passive aggressive towards each other, we also rather not get involved with them at all. 

I wouldn’t trust mainstream news from anywhere myself, particularly when talking about antagonistic countries. But I’d commend Sweden for actually not wanting to get involved if that’s the popular stance. I sure wish we’d do the same with other countries. 

[ColonelKillaBee]

And keep in mind it under the Obama administration, our government has data on literally everything we do online. With all of that surveillance they couldn’t find a single goddamn thing involving Trump and Russia. Let that sink in.

[Witchking of Angmar]

2 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

You’re seriously underestimating how corrupt our bureaucrats are. There have been plenty of indications that Clinton did things that were illegal and we have FBI officials who straight up said that they brushed that whole affair aside to focus on Trump, then after three years of allowing the whole world to believe he was a Russian puppet (permanently damaging his reputation), they came up with nothing. Some of the top agents involved with the investigation were blatantly biased to the point of absurdity, with texts between them before the election literally saying that they needed to stop him from winning. 

Given how the investigation was about foreign conspiracy regarding the sitting president I can understand if they decide to overlook Hillary to focus on Trump. 

From what I heard those agents were removed from the investigation rather quickly. Also that the investigation were led by some respected republicans. So in either case the investigation was fair in a way. In most other corrupt countries where they want to remove someone from power they just make up evidence. 

2 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

If it’s true, I don’t care where it comes from. If it’s a lie, then I consider it less of a problem from foreigners than I do from my own countrymen.

Fair enough. Maybe I just find it more important given how Russia is closer to my country and is more actively aggressive. 

2 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

I wouldn’t trust mainstream news from anywhere myself, particularly when talking about antagonistic countries. But I’d commend Sweden for actually not wanting to get involved if that’s the popular stance. I sure wish we’d do the same with other countries. 

I feel I can trust mainstream media in certain regards. It largely depends on the subject and if it seems like something that would fit in with their political bias. Immigration for example is a touchy subject in my country. Whereas something like political corruption in other countries is generally not something we care about, with the exception of the Palestine/Israel conflict; which I'm not sure why bother with. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Witchking of Angmar
Stupid grammar

[TheCzarsHussar]

1 hour ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

Palestine/Israel conflict;

Oy vey

[ColonelKillaBee]

1 hour ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

Given how the investigation was about foreign conspiracy regarding the sitting president I can understand if they decide to overlook Hillary to focus on Trump. 

Translation, it’s ok when we do it  

If the same accusations came up on Hillary; liberals, and by extension the FBI, would not have given a damn.

[The Good Doctor]

1 hour ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

Given how the investigation was about foreign conspiracy regarding the sitting president

Based on fake evidence that came from a source that the FBI knew beforehand to be fake, launched by people who hated Trump, and allowed to last years despite them determining quite early (because of course they did). 

1 hour ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

From what I heard those agents were removed from the investigation rather quickly.  

Only two of them did, and they were only the worst members of the team who had such a bias. The guy who put the damn team together was at Hillary’s election night party.

The correspondence between those first two that revealed their bias was also covered up for four months after its discovery.

1 hour ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

Also that the investigation were led by some respected republicans. So in either case the investigation were fair in a way.

Okay.  The "respected republican" I assume you’re referring to is the investigation leader, Robert Mueller, a guy with one of the shadiest records ever that stopped getting brought up right around the time it became public knowledge that he was gonna be the guy that would finally bring down Trump. That’s when he transformed on-screen from the party’s shady spy guy into a national hero. 

"Republican" doesn’t mean shit. Trump was so popular with his base specifically because he ran against the Republican establishment and won. People like Mueller are Bush cronies who are far more aligned with the Clintons than they ever were with Trump, regardless of an R or a D beside their names. 

I’ve never claimed that Republicans are the good guys and Democrats are the bad guys. Both parties are corrupt and half of them are best friends with each other. Now that this is becoming better known to the public, the old guard is struggling to keep power as new and more serious factions overtake them. In the Republicans’ case, it’s more nationalistic America-first minded people like Trump’s base. For the Democrats, unfortunately, the far left identity politics crowd has been filling that role.

[Witchking of Angmar]

11 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Translation, it’s ok when we do it  

If the same accusations came up on Hillary; liberals, and by extension the FBI, would not have given a damn.

Personally I feel any conspiracy with an foreign, and especially authoritarian, power should be investigated. If Hillary had been suspected of conspiring with China during the election I feel it should have done the same investigation into her. 

Though that may also be because I don't like China nor Russia. China less so because they are flexing their economic muscles to bully people into doing what they want. On top of which they're trying to push Huawei products (especially for 5G) which people are buying, despite that China has a law that requires any and all companies based in China to help the intelligence service when asked. Which means Huawei is very likely one big spyware business. 

Seriously, if Hillary was suspected of conspiring with China I'd be among the first to call for an investigation. 

14 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Based on fake evidence that came from a source that the FBI knew beforehand to be fake, launched by people who hated Trump, and allowed to last years despite them determining quite early (because of course they did). 

Only two of them did, and they were only the worst members of the team who had such a bias. The guy who put the damn team together was at Hillary’s election night party.

The correspondence between those first two that revealed their bias was also covered up for four months after its discovery.

Okay.  The "respected republican" I assume you’re referring to is the investigation leader, Robert Mueller, a guy with one of the shadiest records ever that stopped getting brought up right around the time it became public knowledge that he was gonna be the guy that would finally bring down Trump.

"Republican" doesn’t mean shit. Trump was so popular with his base specifically because he ran against the Republican establishment and won. People like Mueller are Bush cronies who are far more aligned with the Clintons than they ever were with Trump, regardless of an R or a D beside their names. 

I’ve never claimed that Republicans are the good guys and Democrats are the bad guys. Both parties are corrupt and half of them are best friends with each other. Now that this is coming more to light, the old guard is struggling to keep power as new and more serious factions overtake them. In the Republicans’ case, it’s more nationalistic America-first minded people like Trump’s base. For the Democrats, unfortunately, the identity politics crowd has been filling that role.

Then I guess I don't know very much. Though I hope you understand that I cannot really buy all of what you say about the FBI at face value as that sounds like stuff Trump would lie about to defend himself. 

[Celan]

6 hours ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

I think you need to stop idealizing us here in the north. While we've always had a strong left here, it used to be mostly about decent wages, worker safety, tax payed healthcare and schools, and the like. I don't know when or why it became so focused on these strange cultural ideas. I feel like blaming the US because it seems like most of the strange stuff happened in your country first and was then imported here. 

It's both, though I think the roots are in European academics who came to the US after WWII, whose pseudo-Marxism was embraced by US academia and now has been absorbed in US popular culture and being disseminated back to Europe and the rest of the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

The goal of the Frankfurt School was to spread anti-capitalism and undermine western institutions through culture and education. The message of neo-Marxists was picked up by the 60s radicals and civil rights movement, who had very legitimate complaints, but who kept regurgitating this ideology even after those complaints were largely addressed in public life. This is why the left has to manufacture racial and misogynistic "hate crimes" even when there aren't any actual ones (and there are actual ones, don't get me wrong). They feed on divisions between groups of people, because they believe by deepening and exploiting these, they'll cause the working class to "rise up" like Marxists always wanted them to do, and overthrow capitalism and western power structures. Add to this the relativism of post-modernism, and you get craziness like people claiming the Muslim hijab is a sign of liberation, because you're not allowed to critique ideas unless they're western.

[The Good Doctor]

16 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

Then I guess I don't know very much. Though I hope you understand that I cannot really buy all of what you say about the FBI at face value as that sounds like stuff Trump would lie about to defend himself. 

President Trump didn’t make up the idea that we’ve got a serious corruption problem.  Anyone who paid much attention has been saying this this shit for many years before he even ran.

A lot of his base supported him specifically because he said he would oppose it. Which is why it’s hardly a stretch to assume that various factions within 'it' would work against him. 

[Celan]

19 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

Personally I feel any conspiracy with an foreign, and especially authoritarian, power should be investigated. If Hillary had been suspected of conspiring with China during the election I feel it should have done the same investigation into her. 

Though that may also be because I don't like China nor Russia. China less so because they are flexing their economic muscles to bully people into doing what they want. On top of which they're trying to push Huawei products (especially for 5G) which people are buying, despite that China has a law that requires any and all companies based in China to help the intelligence service when asked. Which means Huawei is very likely one big spyware business. 

Seriously, if Hillary was suspected of conspiring with China I'd be among the first to call for an investigation. 

China has always interfered in our elections. There were big cash donations to Obama's campaign and before that to the Clintons. Some major Democratic leaders were found to have Chinese spies in their staffs.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/08/01/details-chinese-spy-dianne-feinstein-san-francisco/

The so-called Clinton Foundation was one big pretext for foreign cash to be funneled to what people assumed would be a future President. This included half a million dollars from a Russian bank, not long after Hillary as Secretary of State helped enable 20% of our uranium to be sold to Russia. Donations to the Clinton Foundation from the Canadian company that benefitted from this sale weren't disclosed - an "accounting mistake," they said.

Foreign interference is expected (we do it all the time) and such issues are usually handled by our security forces, but the real problem with Mueller and Co. is that it was an attempt to overturn a democratic election through a manufactured hysteria, and pretext for the Obama administration to surveill an opposition campaign. It's 100x worse than Watergate which is what brought down the Nixon administration. Obama-appointed bureaucrats decided to use their offices to undermine the incoming Trump administration, and they were pretty open about it, because they assumed there would be no consequences. So far this has been the case.

[Witchking of Angmar]

12 minutes ago, Celan said:

It's both, though I think the roots are in European academics who came to the US after WWII, whose pseudo-Marxism was embraced by US academia and now has been absorbed in US popular culture and being disseminated back to Europe and the rest of the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

The goal of the Frankfurt School was to spread anti-capitalism and undermine western institutions through cultural institutions and education. The message of neo-Marxists was picked up by the 60s radicals and civil rights movement, who had very legitimate complaints, but who kept regurgitating this ideology even after those complaints were largely addressed in public life. This is why the left has to manufacture racial and misogynistic "hate crimes" even when there aren't any actual ones (and there are actual ones, don't get me wrong). They feed on divisions between groups of people, because they believe by deepening and exploiting these, they'll cause the working class to "rise up" like Marxists always wanted them to do, and overthrow capitalism and western power structures. Add to this the relativism of post-modernism, and you get craziness like people claiming the Muslim hijab is a sign of liberation, because you're not allowed to critique ideas unless they're western.

That sounds really strange given how what I've come to learn about communism was very much against such divisions. Though it would also help explain why our communists has embraced such a strangely divisive ideology. 

4 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

President Trump didn’t make up the idea that we’ve got a serious corruption problem.  Anyone who paid much attention has been saying this this shit for many years before he even ran.

A lot of his base supported him specifically because he said he would oppose it. Which is why it’s hardly a stretch to assume that various factions within 'it' would work against him. 

I'm not saying that Trump is wrong that your political establishment is corrupt. I'm just saying I have a hard time believing stuff when it comes to specifics. Both sides have been known to lie to save their own skin. 

[Celan]

10 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

That sounds really strange given how what I've come to learn about communism was very much against such divisions. Though it would also help explain why our communists has embraced such a strangely divisive ideology. 

Marxism is based on the idea of a dialectic. Society advances itself through conflict. Pure Marxism saw this only as a class-based struggle, the proletariat vs. the capitalists. Pseudo-Marxism took that idea and broadened "the struggle" to include race, sex and post-colonialism. The New Left sees societal progress as only happening through the fight against racism, sexism and western hegemony. Without that struggle, there's nothing for them to exploit, so they'll manufacture it if they have to. This is why they try to convince people who are largely healthy and well-off (in terms of human civilization as a whole) that they're suffering and oppressed. We all feel oppressed to some extent, because life is hard, so it's easy to make people feel miserable. What the radical left hasn't figured out yet is how to turn that into widespread armed conflict, but they're trying.*

edit- * And so are the various far right fascists, of the Anders Breivik variety. These idiots deserve each other.

[Witchking of Angmar]

9 minutes ago, Celan said:

China has always interfered in our elections. There were big cash donations to Obama's campaign and before that to the Clintons. Some major Democratic leaders were found to have Chinese spies in their staffs.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/08/01/details-chinese-spy-dianne-feinstein-san-francisco/

The so-called Clinton Foundation was one big pretext for foreign cash to be funneled to what people assumed would be a future President. This included half a million dollars from a Russian bank, not long after Hillary as Secretary of State helped enable 20% of our uranium to be sold to Russia. Donations to the Clinton Foundation from the Canadian company that benefitted from this sale weren't disclosed in an "accounting mistake."

These things are expected and are usually handled by our security forces, but the issue with Mueller and Co. is that it was an attempt to overturn a democratic election through a manufactured hysteria, and pretext for the Obama administration to surveill an opposition campaign. It's 100x worse than Watergate which is what brought down the Nixon administration. Obama-appointed bureaucrats decided to use their offices to undermine the incoming Trump administration, and they were pretty open about it, because they assumed there would be no consequences. So far this has been the case.

Then they should definitely investigate Hillary and the like. It seems your entire establishment could use a scrubbing. Even though yours is worse I feel the same way about mine. Don't think it'll happen to either in the near future though. 

As for Obama appointed bureaucrats screwing over Trump is just par for the course when it comes to your politics. The fact that you can appoint such bureaucrats politically will pretty much ensure they'll always screw over the other side. There I think it's more a fault in the system. 

[The Good Doctor]

1 minute ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

Both sides have been known to lie to save their own skin. 

What does it say when a whole bunch of sides known for lying and being against each other all suddenly come together in agreement to condemn a man who gained support for calling them out?

Anyway, you don’t have to take my word for any of this. Mueller and the FBI’s terrible track records, the involved agents’ politics, the ridiculous dossier they used as a source, the collusion with the media, and all the rest of this can be found pretty easily online if you care enough to look for them. 

[The Good Doctor]

@Celan

Are you familiar with Yuri Besmenov? He was a KGB defector who specialized in propaganda and subversion when he worked for them, so there ain’t many better sources on the subject.

He talks about this stuff at length. Very interesting for anyone who has the time. (Warning: video is an hour long, it’s a full lecture)