Civil War Aftermath OOC #2

[TheCzarsHussar]

17 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

@TheCzarsHussar

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A minute of foreign speech within the longboat ended with a few dozen letters thrown atop the longboat's deck, to which Hagen crumpled up a handful and tossed them atop the dockyard, most landed while a few drifted into the water.

"Some very fine paper that is."

 

It was also hilarious when they got “personally insulted” by the very idea that someone else would dare to use armored horses. I think that the Roscreans’ biggest weakness and biggest strength is how alien they are. It can make for some confusion when reading about them, but it also makes most of their interactions with people from Tamriel hysterical. 

Funniest part though was when word came about the dragon. All the different responses were perfect. Especially the Atmoriant’s. "He’s come back to devour me." ... "You incessant dragon worshippers, look what you've awoken. It will bring ruin."  

 

This also had some of the best executed worldbuilding Roscrea’s gotten so far, imo. Stuff like the Atmoriant clans getting wiped out by the Dragon Cult coming up in conversation, or the way they organized an impromptu Thing and chose leaders during the post felt like very natural ways to expand on their history and culture IC rather than some of the information dumps we’ve gotten before. More entertaining to read, too.

All in all, these mercenaries are a fun lot. Probably my favorite Roscreans so far. “Corvus” and Hagen especially. I loved the quiet build up of the Atmoriant’s character, with us slowly learning more about him piece by piece until it ended with him being given a name. 

Thanks Doc! This was definitely one of the most fun posts for me to write, Hagen and 'Corvus' are two I've been dying to introduce for months. Balrog came up with the name, I have his actual name in my notes but I think its extremely unlikely he will ever tell anyone.

[The Good Doctor]

2 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

 

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Thanks Doc! This was definitely one of the most fun posts for me to write, Hagen and 'Corvus' are two I've been dying to introduce for months. Balrog came up with the name, I have his actual name in my notes but I think its extremely unlikely he will ever tell anyone.

 

 

I'm sure it's very long, complex, and nigh-impossible to pronounce.  

I like Corvus. As far as Imperial names go, it's one of the more badass. Dales did good with that particular snap decision.  Any time I've gotta name someone, I end up having to pause the game and think about it for twenty minutes.

[TheCzarsHussar]

12 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

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Corvus is my favourite cause I fucking love giants  (their my second favourite fantasy creatures) Czar did a fucking amazing job with them. Can't wait for their interactions with Imperials and Cyrodiil. 

Some trivia that Czar explained to me  Corvus has been alive since the initial invasion of the Septims back so long ago. And that "Khajit pelt"? It belongs to a fucking Snow Demon from Akavari, and he was a client soldier for the Tsaesci for a long time. He was afraid of Naafy because he believed him to be Tosh Raka, the Dragon God, who he had the misfortune of facing in a massive battle when he was under the snake people's service.

 

You got so fucking excited when I told you about the far eastern stuff, I actually had to downplay the character IC when your guy started talking about how he could tell Corvus saw dragons before.

[BigBossBalrog]

1 minute ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

 

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You got so fucking excited when I told you about the far eastern stuff, I actually had to downplay the character IC when your guy started talking about how he could tell Corvus saw dragons before.

 

I love the far east  And it's a pretty fucking awesome backstory regardless.

[BigBossBalrog]

I just noticed something 

 

Dales mentioned not wanting to hire anymore freaks, but she's got an ancient Half Giant and Dragon-Mercenary in her employee now 

 Talk about not knowing what she wants.

[TheCzarsHussar]

9 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

I just noticed something 

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Dales mentioned not wanting to hire anymore freaks, but she's got an ancient Half Giant and Dragon-Mercenary in her employee now 

 Talk about not knowing what she wants.

Its going to be really awkward dor Corvus being around the dragon.

[BigBossBalrog]

2 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

 

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Its going to be really awkward dor Corvus being around the dragon.

 

So he was more or less traumatised by Tosh Raka 

Dude must have fucked them up.

[TheCzarsHussar]

2 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

 

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So he was more or less traumatised by Tosh Raka 

Dude must have fucked them up.

Perhaps a little

Plus a huge aversion to the dragon cult.

[TheCzarsHussar]

"

You made no mention of your Emperor? Iunderstand fully. Are we to wait here, or inside?" ~Hagen

I bet Krojun's thinking that bitches about to die

[BigBossBalrog]

 

 

It's more of of neutral move. Dales is just asserting her independence. With a small army of scary viking bodyguards and a Dragon but still. 

[Witchking of Angmar]

The Roscreans are an interesting bunch. Though I feel the writing could be smoother. Especially the many detailed armor descriptions could be shortened and simplified. I'd like it if I wasn't required to go search the internet to find out what various arms and armaments are, I'd enjoy the text much more. 

I'd also like it if the Imperial City wasn't described as the great crossroads of the world. It's not Constantinople that sits at the path between east and west. With the current three hostile provinces in the south, the eastern two that have practically cut all their ties, and the three remaining that only tolerate Cyrodiil, I feel the Imperial City would be closer to Rome during the collapse of the west; not quite at the edge, but not at the center either. Not to mention the hostilities with the Dominion would most likely lead to increased racism and segregation. I also don't think there's a dozen languages used in practice in Tamriel overall, even less in IC. 

I liked the reaction to the dragon among the mercenaries. Could be interesting to see how they react to it up close. 

One last thing though is I do think having the mercenaries outright say that they are not tied to politics to be heavy handed writing meant only to tell the reader what they are. Sometimes less is more and I think it would have been better to leave that aspect of them as something implied than outright explained. 

[TheCzarsHussar]

22 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

 

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The Roscreans are an interesting bunch. Though I feel the writing could be smoother. Especially the many detailed armor descriptions could be shortened and simplified. I'd like it if I wasn't required to go search the internet to find out what various arms and armaments are, I'd enjoy the text much more. 

I'd also like it if the Imperial City wasn't described as the great crossroads of the world. It's not Constantinople that sits at the path between east and west. With the current three hostile provinces in the south, the eastern two that have practically cut all their ties, and the three remaining that only tolerate Cyrodiil, I feel the Imperial City would be closer to Rome during the collapse of the west; not quite at the edge, but not at the center either. Not to mention the hostilities with the Dominion would most likely lead to increased racism and segregation. I also don't think there's a dozen languages used in practice in Tamriel overall, even less in IC. 

I liked the reaction to the dragon among the mercenaries. Could be interesting to see how they react to it up close. 

One last thing though is I do think having the mercenaries outright say that they are not tied to politics to be heavy handed writing meant only to tell the reader what they are. Sometimes less is more and I think it would have been better to leave that aspect of them as something implied than outright explained. 

Sorry about the arms descriptions, I didn't want to be lazy and at the same time wanted to further point to the exotic nature of having surged in extra-Tamrielic courts.

As for the mercenary thing how is it a problem? That's absolutely historical, do you think Dales could get Roscrean nobles or their retainers to guard her? Hell no they wouldn't, Roscreans as I told Doc just aren't as much of a warrior culture anymore. The peasantry are farmers, herders and miners etc and the nobility with their retainers and Bondsmen would never sail from Roscrea to guard some Empress.

The whole and only point is to have experienced men without any tie to local politics loyal to their paymaster, if you can't purchase the nobility and the common folk aren't as warlike as Nords in modern times then who do you hire? Client Soldiers are who.

I left it unexplained but implied that they gave Dales a play, giving what she wanted to see and hear.

[Witchking of Angmar]

 

25 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

Sorry about the arms descriptions, I didn't want to be lazy and at the same time wanted to further point to the exotic nature of having surged in extra-Tamrielic courts.

As for the mercenary thing how is it a problem? That's absolutely historical, do you think Dales could get Roscrean nobles or their retainers to guard her? Hell no they wouldn't, Roscreans as I told Doc just aren't as much of a warrior culture anymore. The peasantry are farmers, herders and miners etc and the nobility with their retainers and Bondsmen would never sail from Roscrea to guard some Empress.

The whole and only point is to have experienced men without any tie to local politics loyal to their paymaster, if you can't purchase the nobility and the common folk aren't as warlike as Nords in modern times then who do you hire? Client Soldiers are who.

I left it unexplained but implied that they gave Dales a play, giving what she wanted to see and hear.

You misunderstand me. I said that the presentation of their lack of political ties was heavy handed and on the nose with its explanation. There's a difference between having the mercenary outright say that they are not tied to politics and for example them simply discussing briefly among themselves that they have no idea of what the politics of the region are and that they are better off just listening to Dales. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Witchking of Angmar
Grammar

[Celan]

20 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

 

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It’s been forever since I looked into this stuff so the answer might be obvious. Don’t dragons absorb the souls of dragons they kill, or is that just a dovahkiin power? If they do, then it really isn’t much of a question whether or not Agbeyndun survived. Naaf should know that he did.

I'm not sure about that. Wasn't it a big deal and a shock to the dragons when they realized their soul was being sucked out by a dragonborn?

[ColonelKillaBee]

It was to the first dragon you killed at least, but it seems like he didn’t realize you were Dragonborn.

[The Good Doctor]

27 minutes ago, Celan said:

I'm not sure about that. Wasn't it a big deal and a shock to the dragons when they realized their soul was being sucked out by a dragonborn?

I thought that was just because they didn't expect some mortal to come up and suck out their soul. With the return of Alduin, they probably felt perfectly comfortable doing whatever they pleased since they were under the impression that he'd just pop in and resurrect them if they died. It was probably pretty terrifying to that dragon outside Whiterun when he realized that his soul was getting devoured by a random mortal.

[BTC]

I found this quote on UESP

“Although Arngeir says that dragons have the same ability as the Dovahkiin to absorb a slain dragon's soul, receive its knowledge, and use this to master a new shout, it never happens during gameplay.”

From this page: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dragon

[The Good Doctor]

3 minutes ago, BTCollins said:

I found this quote on UESP

“Although Arngeir says that dragons have the same ability as the Dovahkiin to absorb a slain dragon's soul, receive its knowledge, and use this to master a new shout, it never happens during gameplay.”

From this page: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dragon

In that case, I’d say it’s a lore > gameplay thing. There aren’t any scripted instances of dragons killing each other in Skyrim, so they probably just didn’t make a mechanic for it.

[BigBossBalrog]

4 hours ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

 

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The Roscreans are an interesting bunch. Though I feel the writing could be smoother. Especially the many detailed armor descriptions could be shortened and simplified. I'd like it if I wasn't required to go search the internet to find out what various arms and armaments are, I'd enjoy the text much more. 

I'd also like it if the Imperial City wasn't described as the great crossroads of the world. It's not Constantinople that sits at the path between east and west. With the current three hostile provinces in the south, the eastern two that have practically cut all their ties, and the three remaining that only tolerate Cyrodiil, I feel the Imperial City would be closer to Rome during the collapse of the west; not quite at the edge, but not at the center either. Not to mention the hostilities with the Dominion would most likely lead to increased racism and segregation. I also don't think there's a dozen languages used in practice in Tamriel overall, even less in IC. 

I liked the reaction to the dragon among the mercenaries. Could be interesting to see how they react to it up close. 

One last thing though is I do think having the mercenaries outright say that they are not tied to politics to be heavy handed writing meant only to tell the reader what they are. Sometimes less is more and I think it would have been better to leave that aspect of them as something implied than outright explained. 

Me and Czar like writing about detailed armour and weapons. Not going to happen. 

Their lack of political allegiance is vital to their very being, which is why me and Czar hammered it home. It was something that needed to be emphasised so we did. The Mercenaries are completely ignorant of Cyrodiilic culture, they wouldn't know not to speak about their true intelligence, which Dales will encourge.

And lol, Cyrodiil is under my charge. I've been talking a history course on the Late Antiquity, and the Empire's situation is quire removed from the Western Roman Empire. It's in a rough shape, but it's nowhere near the almost total collapse that defined the West's situation.

All of your complaints are very nitpicking. 

[The Good Doctor]

2 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

And lol, Cyrodiil is under my charge. I've been talking a history course on the Late Antiquity, and the Empire's situation is quire removed from the Western Roman Empire. It's in a rough shape, but it's nowhere near the almost total collapse that defined the West's situation.

I think that it's pretty close once you get past the major differences between the worlds themselves. If you don't take the RP into account and assume the Nords broke off, then the "Empire" is really just Cyrodiil and a single province. With the RP, we can say that its current leaders have improved things from where they stood during Skyrim, but it's mostly just Cyrodiil. The Empire overall has more or less shattered, with all its former provinces either split or turned against it.

[BigBossBalrog]

1 minute ago, The Good Doctor said:

I think that it's pretty close once you get past the major differences between the worlds themselves. If you don't take the RP into account and assume the Nords broke off, then the "Empire" is really just Cyrodiil and a single province. With the RP, we can say that its current leaders have improved things from where they stood during Skyrim, but it's mostly just Cyrodiil. The Empire overall has more or less shattered, with all its former provinces either split or turned against it.

No  that wasn't the West's situation. It was a total collapse of state. The Western Roman Empire got swamped because it was too big, and they couldn't pay for the bureaucracy or army needed to maintain it. And there was complete civil chaos. Civil War after civil war. Emperors being deposed month after month. Barbarians breaking through borders to settle in Roman lands. The army being utterly useless cause it was 80 percent barbarians, and it was lead almost entirely by barbarian warlords. Provinces didn't "separate" like in the Empire's case, they we're invaded and taking over. There was no place in the West that had a centralised authority.

In heavy contrast, the Empire owns only Cyrodiil, but that's a good thing, and is unlike the Western Roman's Empire, because they still maintain a heavy centralised, and controlling government that's somewhat strong. The politically situation is far better, there is not a dozen different warlords trying to make themselves the Emperor.  They still have a strong Legion.  Their borders are very secure, another contrast to the Romans, and they stillhave a moderate amount of wealth, from trade, and their own intact economy. The Septim is still the most used currency on the Continent, unlike the Roman mint which was never used at this point. Since they've been driven to the central part of their Empire, which is fortified and secured, their ironically in far better shape then the Western Roman Empire, who collapsed basically within in a decade all at the same time and also in the central part of their Empire.

So no, there really nothing alike.

[Celan]

Byzantium was able to stay intact longer because of a near impregnable capital. Cyrodiil has no such thing.

For a good deal of Byzantium's history, they had little more than Constantinople itself. They were propped up by Venetian navy and military support from Rus, and still Constantinople was sacked numerous times and the eastern empire suffered from terrible plagues. When it finally fell, Kemal had more Christian troops in his army than the emperor had in his. Their situation was far from idyllic.

[BigBossBalrog]

1 minute ago, Celan said:

Byzantium was able to stay intact longer because of a near impregnable capital. Cyrodiil has no such thing.

For a good deal of Byzantium's history, they had little more than Constantinople itself. They were propped up by Venetian navy and military support from Rus, and still Constantinople was sacked numerous times and the eastern empire suffered from terrible plagues. When it finally fell, Kemal had more Christian troops in his army than the emperor had in his. Their situation was far from idyllic.

The Plagues are a bigger issue I feel. Didn't the Justinian Plague cripple the Empire when it was going through a very impressive reconquest phase? They could have saved the Empire if it wasn't for that.

[Witchking of Angmar]

10 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

Me and Czar like writing about detailed armour and weapons. Not going to happen. 

Their lack of political allegiance is vital to their very being, which is why me and Czar hammered it home. It was something that needed to be emphasised so we did. The Mercenaries are completely ignorant of Cyrodiilic culture, they wouldn't know not to speak about their true intelligence, which Dales will encourge.

And lol, Cyrodiil is under my charge. I've been talking a history course on the Late Antiquity, and the Empire's situation is quire removed from the Western Roman Empire. It's in a rough shape, but it's nowhere near the almost total collapse that defined the West's situation.

All of your complaints are very nitpicking. 

Nitpick is somewhat subjective. But descriptions of clothes and armor that make the text feel like it flows like a river of bricks, description of a city such that it seems to completely disregard the current world state and explaining the situation with the subtlety of an anvil to the face is clunky writing. And I'm going to point it out since I want you to improve. 

[The Good Doctor]

13 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

No  that wasn't the West's situation. It was a total collapse of state. The Western Roman Empire got swamped because it was too big, and they couldn't pay for the bureaucracy or army needed to maintain it. And there was complete civil chaos. Civil War after civil war. Emperors being deposed month after month.

All of this applies to the Cyrodiilic Empire throughout the 4th Era. The biggest difference between it and the Romans is that the Romans never had a strong Titus Mede figure to come in and temporarily restore something resembling order (to the degree he did, at least). But Skyrim makes it clear that even what he accomplished was tenuous with cities falling to what are basically “barbarians” left and right even without the Thalmor’s involvement.

Dales and Krojun may have brought Cyrodiil together and helped prevent it from collapsing, but without them, it would’ve been finished.

Also, the Septim being the most used currency literally means nothing. It’s pure gold. The value comes from the metal, not the dragon stamp on it.