Soulsborne Thread #9

[BigBossBalrog]

11 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

 

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Sounds like we’re due another chat.

Although, I’m not sure I’ll be convinced that the murderous body-snatcher who constantly shouts "LET CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD" is going to be the best source for good, unbiased… sane information.

Well giants and dragons seem violent and hostile and the Godskins are downright horrific, so that all sounds good to me.  

Cleaving down the last vestiges of ancient world craziness seems like a small price to pay for millennia of peace, order, and stability.

Also reinforces my belief that this whole world feels more Biblical than Lovecraftian. Like the tribes of Israel destroying the enemy nations in the lands of Canaan in the name of God. That’s not the sort of thing you’d see Bloodborne deities. This "god" has a will that is reflected in the world. It’s even in the name: "Greater Will". 

Ehem, I recall saying the same about how Kaathe and his groupies weren't to be trusted because of how overly maliciously they operate  But, yes Shabari is not to be trusted.

And let's be honest, the fact that after an Accord was struck, the Dragons being allowed to be integrated in the new world order as kind of lesser God's themselves, just shows 

The Golden Order is alot more stable then it's alternatives. 

[TheCzarsHussar]

20 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

 

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Sounds like we’re due another chat.

Although, I’m not sure I’ll be convinced that the murderous body-snatcher who constantly shouts "LET CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD" is going to be the best source for good, unbiased… sane information.

Well giants and dragons seem violent and hostile and the Godskins are downright horrific, so that all sounds good to me.  

Cleaving down the last vestiges of ancient world craziness seems like a small price to pay for millennia of peace, order, and stability.

Also reinforces my belief that this whole world feels more Biblical than Lovecraftian. Like the tribes of Israel destroying the enemy nations in the lands of Canaan in the name of God. That’s not the sort of thing you’d see Bloodborne deities. This "god" has a will that is reflected in the world. It’s even in the name: "Greater Will". 

20 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Sounds like we’re due another chat.

Although, I’m not sure I’ll be convinced that the murderous body-snatcher who constantly shouts "LET CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD" is going to be the best source for good, unbiased… sane information.

It's hard to explain without spoilers, but you don't learn it from Shabriri himself. You need only seek audience with the Three Fingers, it sets into motion the final throws of an early game quest.

22 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Well giants

Oh yeah it's downright sinister. The Greater Will and Marika want to usher in a new epoch, an epoch of life. It makes sense how the Giants and their fell god are not evil exactly but embody the wrathful destructive forces of nature, like how Kyne is seen by the Nords.

But for there to be an epoch of life, the Fire Giants had to be put to the sword each and all, but for one survivor, eternally cursed by Marika to tend their ruinous forge. Their forge is beyond even the power of the Greater Will and can never be extinguished.

24 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

dragons

Much to the Greater Will's grumbling, some dragons are pretty reasonable

24 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Also reinforces my belief that this whole world feels more Biblical than Lovecraftian. Like the tribes of Israel destroying the enemy nations in the lands of Canaan in the name of God. That’s not the sort of thing you’d see Bloodborne deities. This "god" has a will that is reflected in the world. It’s even in the name: "Greater Will".

It certainly does feel more biblical in nature than lovecraftian, the Greater Will that is.

[TheCzarsHussar]

14 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

 

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The Golden Order is alot more stable then it's alternatives. 

Agreed, it has it's flaws certainly but of all the alternatives prior to the events of the game, it's the best course for the world. Even if it's hugely sinister itself

[The Good Doctor]

13 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

 

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It certainly does feel more biblical in nature than lovecraftian, the Greater Will that is.

 

 

I’d say the same of the other outer gods, to be honest. What they seem to represent as destructive or chaotic forces (rot, wrathful flame, whatever the hell Formless Mother is) in opposition to the Greater Will’s position as a force of order and stability gives off devil/demon vibes.

Then what’s really interesting is how the "not outer" gods of the land itself seem much more rooted in various worldly pagan mythologies, with more emphasis on nature and more primal spheres.

And then there’s Marika and the demigods who seem more like traditional and "human" deities from major polytheistic religions like the Greeks had.

Reminds me a LOT of Middle Earth, to be honest. And not in the derivative way that most things do. But I’ve got no doubt there were inspirations. On the mythology side of it, they blend the Christian and pagan stuff very similarly. You e got aspects of an ancient and primal world buried beneath both new and old. Lots of gradients to it all.

Formless Mother > Mogh also gives me some Morgoth > Sauron vibes.  

[The Good Doctor]

Long way of saying that I really am digging this universe’s worldbuilding and mythology more and more as I explore more of it. 

[TheCzarsHussar]

25 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

 

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I’d say the same of the other outer gods, to be honest. What they seem to represent as destructive or chaotic forces (rot, wrathful flame, whatever the hell Formless Mother is) in opposition to the Greater Will’s position as a force of order and stability gives off devil/demon vibes.

Then what’s really interesting is how the "not outer" gods of the land itself seem much more rooted in various worldly pagan mythologies, with more emphasis on nature and more primal spheres.

And then there’s Marika and the demigods who seem more like traditional and "human" deities from major polytheistic religions like the Greeks had.

Reminds me a LOT of Middle Earth, to be honest. And not in the derivative way that most things do. But I’ve got no doubt there were inspirations. On the mythology side of it, they blend the Christian and pagan stuff very similarly. You e got aspects of an ancient and primal world buried beneath both new and old. Lots of gradients to it all.

Formless Mother > Mogh also gives me some Morgoth > Sauron vibes.  

 

At this point in the game, at the very cusp of no return, how do you think Melina plays into all this?

Without spoilers, I fully subscribe to the theory that Marika being her mother is a massive red herring, that she or her mother is something very powerful and old. Since you never summoned, Melina has the moveset of a Black Knife if you summon her against Morgott. So we can at least confirm Melina is a Numen.

Edited April 18, 2022 by TheCzarsHussar
Forgot a single word

[The Good Doctor]

20 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

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At this point in the game, at the very cusp of no return, how do you think Melina plays into all this?

I have no idea to be honest. For the person who was supposed to be our companion throughout the entire journey, Melina feels way underexplored and underdeveloped. She very rarely appears, and most of the time that she does, it’s just to provide some Marika quotes, not to actually tell us anything about herself. 

Honestly, so far she wouldn’t even make my top ten NPCs. And as a "bonfire" companion, Ranni was much better explored for the short time she was around.

Honestly, I haven’t been given much reason at all to doubt the story she told me. 

25 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

Since you never summoned, Melina has the moveset of a Black Knife if you summon her against Morgott. So we can at least confirm Melina is a Numen.

Doesn’t that support her mother being Marika, who was Numen or at least Numen-adjacent?

Not saying I think that. I really don’t know what to think about her. 

[BigBossBalrog]

It's reminiscent of the Christian Theology, with alot of added aspects of paganism of all kinds, but there's some weird stuff about it,

You can find an item that states the Greater Will made an alliance with the Dark Moon, another Outer God. Who had massive influence over the Carrian Royal Family, which was symbolized by Radagon marrying Rennala. 

[The Good Doctor]

11 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

It's reminiscent of the Christian Theology, with alot of added aspects of paganism of all kinds, but there's some weird stuff about it,

 

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You can find an item that states the Greater Will made an alliance with the Dark Moon, another Outer God. Who had massive influence over the Carrian Royal Family, which was symbolized by Radagon marrying Rennala. 

 

That seems to have gone overwhelmingly in TGW’s favor considering Golden Order would go on to reign supreme while Liurnia fell into disarray once Radagon left and Rennala went mad.

If their marriage was symbolic of an alliance, then surely Radagon leaving her to marry/join/return to being Marika to establish a golden age while Liurnia falls to ruin would also be symbolic of something, right?

[TheCzarsHussar]

2 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

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That seems to have gone overwhelmingly in TGW’s favor considering Golden Order would go on to reign supreme while Liurnia fell into disarray once Radagon left and Rennala went mad.

If their marriage was symbolic of an alliance, then surely Radagon leaving her to marry/join/return to being Marika to establish a golden age while Liurnia falls to ruin would also be symbolic of something, right?

It certainly didn't help that Liurnia was consumed by a civil war. With the academy and their Knights of the Cuckoo attempting to overthrow the Carian Royals.

[BigBossBalrog]

24 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

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That seems to have gone overwhelmingly in TGW’s favor considering Golden Order would go on to reign supreme while Liurnia fell into disarray once Radagon left and Rennala went mad.

If their marriage was symbolic of an alliance, then surely Radagon leaving her to marry/join/return to being Marika to establish a golden age while Liurnia falls to ruin would also be symbolic of something, right?

Which is what it's moving forward with it's proxy Ranni 

[The Good Doctor]

Astel

I know Astel is part of a race of star creatures and so it wouldn’t be too out there to run into more than one, but why. the. hell. did I just kill Astel himself again in a random cave?

I get reusing bosses, but this one? Same name and all? Why would there be two? Why double up on one of the most unique enemies? 

Godrick, Mohg and Astel all deserved better than the reuse pile.

At this point, I’m worried that I’ll bump into "Lieutenant Redehn" at the bottom of some catacomb, and it’s just General Radahn’s first phase. And he drops like a talisman or something that makes a vague reference to a forgotten twin brother.

[BigBossBalrog]

3 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Astel

 

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I know Astel is part of a race of star creatures and so it wouldn’t be too out there to run into more than one, but why. the. hell. did I just kill Astel himself again in a random cave?

I get reusing bosses, but this one? Same name and all? Why would there be two? Why double up on one of the most unique enemies? 

Godrick, Mohg and Astel all deserved better than the reuse pile.

At this point, I’m worried that I’ll bump into "Lieutenant Redehn" at the bottom of some catacomb, and it’s just General Radahn’s first phase. And he drops like a talisman or something that makes a vague reference to a forgotten twin brother.

 

*Puts on Lore theory hat* 

Yeah it's pretty stupid  I think they just ran out of money when they were designing the Moutain of the Giants. The Yetis, Wolf-Gals, and polar bears are cool, but I think they couldn't create any more unique mini bosses 

For what it's worth, the next main area has like five unique bosses 

[The Good Doctor]

43 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

 

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*Puts on Lore theory hat* 

Yeah it's pretty stupid  I think they just ran out of money when they were designing the Moutain of the Giants. The Yetis, Wolf-Gals, and polar bears are cool, but I think they couldn't create any more unique mini bosses 

For what it's worth, the next main area has like five unique bosses 

 

This was in the Consecrated Snowfield.

There was one moderately cool dungeon boss who was like the Misbegotten Warrior but wielding a really badass sword that I have no idea how he got considering it was implied to have belonged to Radagon!!!

I like the snowy enemies. They are pretty cool for the most part. And there are some neat new additions here and there like the albinauric wolf riders, and the colossal hand creatures who are bigger than giants.

[BigBossBalrog]

A description states these guys used to be worshipped like Gods by the Ancestral Followers (The horned Tribes in the underground)

Pretty sad you all these beautiful nature spirits that are fey-like being driven into hiding and dissolution by these cosmic bullies 

[The Good Doctor]

9 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

Pretty sad you all these beautiful nature spirits that are fey-like being driven into hiding and dissolution by these cosmic bullies 

Again reminds me a lot of Middle Earth. The ancient powers of the world, Ents, nature spirits, Tom Bombadil, they’re all relics and soon to be lost and forgotten after many ages of younger peoples and ways taking over.

[The Good Doctor]

The Ancestor Spirits are honestly the only bosses who I killed and then was like "wait… why did I do that?"

 

[BigBossBalrog]

5 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Again reminds me a lot of Middle Earth. The ancient powers of the world, Ents, nature spirits, Tom Bombadil, they’re all relics and soon to be lost and forgotten after many ages of younger peoples and ways taking over.

Kind of like "end of an age" thing; big difference is in Tolkien's World, it's sad, but a natural process in which magic is slowly seeping out of middle-earth and heading back West. In Elden Ring, these beings are being hunted, rounded up, and being put to the sword by the powers who want sole dominance. 

Even with the Fire Giant; who looked horrifying, there was so much awesome wonder when I saw him for the first time. And then you read Marika inflicted a fate worse then death on him, and another description said you were freeing him from his torment. 

Got to ask yourself, do these ancient beings deserve all this death? 

There's an item you can find that belonged to Godfry 

which says the "light in his eyes" became dead when his army put the last giants to the swords from guilt. 

[TheCzarsHussar]

32 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

Kind of like "end of an age" thing; big difference is in Tolkien's World, it's sad, but a natural process in which magic is slowly seeping out of middle-earth and heading back West. In Elden Ring, these beings are being hunted, rounded up, and being put to the sword by the powers who want sole dominance. 

Even with the Fire Giant; who looked horrifying, there was so much awesome wonder when I saw him for the first time. And then you read Marika inflicted a fate worse then death on him, and another description said you were freeing him from his torment. 

Got to ask yourself, do these ancient beings deserve all this death? 

There's an item you can find that belonged to Godfry 

 

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which says the "light in his eyes" became dead when his army put the last giants to the swords from guilt. 

 

Are you sure you're not conflating when Marika robbed him of grace after his last worthy foe, and the final adversary of the Greater Will, was slain?

[The Good Doctor]

1 hour ago, BigBossBalrog said:

There's an item you can find that belonged to Godfry 

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which says the "light in his eyes" became dead when his army put the last giants to the swords from guilt. 

I don’t remember anything about guilt. I thought it was more like the story of Alexander the Great crying because he ran out of lands to conquer, or however it goes.

Basically, he’s like "shit, there are no more worthy enemies."

Or like the dude from One Punch Man who’s just got dead eyes because nothing can ever challenge or threaten him.

[TheCzarsHussar]

I just had one of those duel sword wielding Banished Knights in the super late game do non-stop attack combos for thirty seconds straight. No kidding, non stop attack combos. I have 52 poise heavy armor and 2200+ hp and it was down to skill, chugs and a whole lot of rng that I survived it.

Jesus fucking christ, if there's one enemy in the entire game that needs a massive nerf, it's a stamina nerf to the duel wielding Banished Knights. Or better yet, actually give them stamina instead of infinite, yeesh. I can deal with a single 15k+ damage combo, but when they do it four times in a row it gets frustrating.

[The Good Doctor]

2 hours ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

duel sword wielding Banished Knights

These are one of the rare tough mobs that I don’t even bother with most of the time. You get nothing for it so you risk dumping all your estus for no reward.

Otherwise, I really like most knight enemies in this game.

[BigBossBalrog]

You know it's a better academy then Winterhold when they give you a giant stone statue head to wear when you graduate 

[The Good Doctor]

They seem to be putting the mask on her backwards.  

[BigBossBalrog]

24 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

They seem to be putting the mask on her backwards.  

I'm seeing a lot of fans treating Sellen like one of those "scare-queen" alpha-bitch types during her academy days so it would be pretty fun if Renalla and the other students were pulling a carrie-esque prank on her