Civil War Aftermath OOC #4

[ColonelKillaBee]

18 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

With the alliance swap, Bardok reminds me more of Asgen Tyne than of Baldur, to be honest. Which I think is a comparison you made when we were talking a few weeks back.

But I don’t know if I believe Baldur would respect Asgen all that much.  

No but asgen didn’t beat Bal and Bardok exists in a different time. Was never a Stormcloak, and the empire that was here now is gone. So many nuances to this, especially with the pact which I do not respect, outside of Eastmarch and the Rift.

I made the comparison knowing it’s not the same. My only reason for it was to me I don’t see why Asgen himself would care about Skyrim.

Bardok cares about Skyrim and that is why he left the pact. It’s weak and to me no longer needed for them.

Mmo stuff or not to me it’s also pretty realistic that a faction that tries preventing empires crowns emperors once they sit on the seat. Especially given the tribunal and that whole mess

[ColonelKillaBee]

we see their issues for ourselves and of course we know the alliance is doomed. Baldur knows his history and if he heard of such an alliance would say it’s days are numbered too.

Honestly Baldur would just shrug and say good job following your own way.

Youre also forgetting Baldur is called a great betrayer  and that ain’t just talkin about Ulfric…..

So meh

[The Good Doctor]

2 hours ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

outside of Eastmarch and the Rift.

I don’t see how this isn’t enough when the options boil down to fighting for the side that includes these two, or slaying them for gold while helping create a Breton-led Empire. Even if you don’t consider the Pact necessary, turning cloak and jumping on board with a foreign faction seeking to oppress Skyrim is a much greater treason than Baldur has ever committed. Even his murder of Ulfric was motivated by wanting to protect Skyrim. The Pact’s days being numbered is not a great reason to join Skyrim’s enemies.

If it is a 100% mercenary thing and Bardok is doing solely for gold and glory, then that would make him more akin to Asgen. Which is a very interesting thing for a character to do (you know I like Asgen ). But I personally see it as low and honorless. Asgen is a whore. Whatever his prior deeds, I have a hard time not seeing Bardok as one too. Baldur, by contrast, is practically a visionary, doing extreme and controversial things, but always for what he believes is the greater good. He wouldn’t have killed Ulfric if he didn’t think it was necessary.

They’re your characters, of course. So if you say it would be meh to Baldur than it’s meh to Baldur. But that’s how I view them all, at least. I can respect Asgen and Bardok for their strength, cunning, or past deeds, but not their conviction, loyalty, or honor. I respect Baldur for all of the above. 

[ColonelKillaBee]

Yea I dont see it as nearly as big a deal as you're making it tbh lol, I already helped the pact, strengthened skyrim, and now Bardok is merely profiting off of a never ending war in his pastime of defeating daedra and vampires.

Helping an underdog faction that needs soldiers is also a very profitable opportunity, and he's received land, been made a lord... whereas the pact's home you can earn from quests makes you a... Diplomat      -___-

If the war actually lead to something then maybe, and if I actually was looking to serve and support emeric instead of just profiting off the situation like a true merc, then maybe.

Bardok isn't about honor though, no, not in your sense. He has no allegiances to mortal kings, only Lorkhan, and to him, it serves Nords better to not spare the rod, and in Cyrodiil, for the pact, I am the rod.

[ColonelKillaBee]

I guess where the confusion for you guys lies is, the pvp side of it is paramount to my decision and my roleplay. PVP is what I do more often than anything else, aside from roleplaying with Arabella. So for you its mmo nonsense, but not for me.

Your King Jorunn may have run things in the story for you but the actual army of the pact served Emperor Ahtu. An argonian who thought himself a god, and who is now irrelevant and that was my doing.

[ColonelKillaBee]

[ColonelKillaBee]

 See, the rod, lol. They'll even call out my location like it's my attack because they just assume I'm leading. "Bardok flagging bleaks." etc

[The Good Doctor]

I don’t have a problem with basing roleplay around MMO stuff. In fact, I think it’s an interesting character you’ve made, just not one I’d have much respect for in-universe apart from his strength and achievements. From all your descriptions, he just seems to be a mercenary through and through. I don’t think very highly of a mercenary who will turn on his kinsmen for gold and gifts.

Far as the MMO stuff goes, I tend to view it as more of an abstraction than as actual events in the world of TES. By that I mean specific details like Crasem and Nocturnal’s Killer Blade didn’t exist, but there were soldiers out there killing each other like they did. There weren’t hundreds of Emperors getting crowned every few weeks, but maybe some glory-seeking Generals did attempt to call themselves Emperor here and there and it was fun while it lasted. The Elder Scrolls were not used to score points in a game of capture the flag, but maybe someone at some point did get one and go blind or mad trying to learn how the war would end. Someone probably did get Volendrung and use it to great effect. Stuff like that.

So with that in mind, when I talk about the Pact or the Covies, I’m talking purely about the story stuff. I can’t realistically factor in all the real-world conflicts that go into your roleplay, even though it is interesting and I like your character of Bardok. So I cannot see the Covenant as underdogs just because they do worse in certain campaigns, because they’re not written that way at all.

[ColonelKillaBee]

I would hope that this sort of thing doesnt need to be stated? Obviously I dont think Craglord69 is a real person and stole an elderscroll.

As for Bardok and being a merc, he's really not. I would never serve or aid AD, he sees himself more as a test of strength for his kin. I left EP to save EP.

[ColonelKillaBee]

He is working as a merc for DC because he wants to punish EP for what it has become, and hopefully make them better Nords for it. And he's a merc because he could never be a true DC loyalist. The DC I aid are the soldiers, not the elite and nobles at home. 

Its like Balrog and their distinction between the legion and the Empire. Its an arm of the empire, but one that occasionally refuses the order and will of the head, and often takes over the head. Does it matter in the long run, no, but I'm not in it for the long run, only in it to right self wrongs, serve Lorkhan, fight of course alongside my Bell, and to profit. 

To call him just a mercenary is a big disservice.

[ColonelKillaBee]

His convictions are to Nordiness, to Shor, to his companion and to himself. Those don't require or desire the respect of others, so Bardok would be fine with your assessment. His favorite nickname from the pact after all is Barslut.

But its meaningless because it's the insult of half wits that die easily. Scrubs, pugs.

[The Good Doctor]

6 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

To call him just a mercenary is a big disservice.

I was just going off your descriptions. Calling him "a true merc", taking about how that he is fighting for gold, and how Emeric gave him land and made him a lord. If this is all meaningless to him, then fair enough. But it felt to me like you were painting a pretty specific picture.

If Bardok is motivated entirely to make the Nords stronger by testing them with his betrayal, then fair enough. In that case I’d just consider him a bit of a weirdo instead of a pure mercenary. Aiding the DC soldiers is aiding the nobles and their cause too, intentional or not, and the Nords are not exactly living in a time of plenty and prosperity the would make them weak.

They are in bed with lizards in the most literal sense, though. So if part of your motivation is to punish them for being a bunch of disgusting degenerates, I’d definitely be sympathetic to that.  

[ColonelKillaBee]

did I call him a pure merc? If I did, it’s inaccurate. He’s a merc for dc because yes money and property suits his needs both for himself and his lady companion, but to pull the trigger he had to despise his comrades for serving the god emperor and not helping rid us of his influence, only complain. Meanwhile EP sided with AD because with all our numbers we could not beat DC alone, which to me was pathetic.

So now I serve no one. DC has good fighters and with good leadership I knew could beat ep in a big important campaign and we did. 
 

Now that this is done however I can’t go back to service of eastern Skyrim, so I stay in the employ of DC, and have property in leyawiin, Craglorn and Western Skyrim of course, where Bardok originates.

Skyrim is better off for it. In fact so is EP 😆 because the god emperor ahtu is gone now they’ve been zerging the entire map this whole campaign. It’s been brutal.

EP is stronger than ever ironically. As a whole, rather than individually.

[TheCzarsHussar]

From how all this sounds, in universe, it sounds like Bardok went and betrayed his kinsmen and kingship for another rival power. Being a mercenary is absolutely fitting for the Nords, even fighting on another side other than your homeland. Happened historically all the time.

But it looks like this goes deeper than just Bardok repeating the bounty of a mercenary venture. He was a powerful figure in the Ebonheart Pact, a general correct? And according to Colonel, a damn good one too . Now he's given land and titles from the enemy king Emeric and serves his cause. That's not a mercenary venture to me, that's high treason.

As for the comparisons, from everything I've seen written of him, unless it was the only way to protect his family, Baldur would never betray his homeland. It's unthinkable for Baldur when he was a general to turn traitor for the Imperial cause as an example, to make the Nords more Nordy?

[ColonelKillaBee]

Bardok is from western Skyrim. He was an adventurer and merc aiding his brothers from the East because it served all of Skyrim to fight Bal, and fight daedra. That is done now.

He was a general for them yes and he did commit treason but not to his homeland. Merely to the weaker side of Skyrim and to their elven and lizard pets

[ColonelKillaBee]

If the Stormcloaks weren’t the nordiest Nords to ever Nord, Baldur would not have even joined their cause. They’re the last bastion of Nordiness.

The pact is far from that

[TheCzarsHussar]

1 minute ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Bardok is from western Skyrim

Didn't know that piece of character, it certainly makes more sense why he'd be willing to betray the pact, since neither he nor his possessions would be hampered.

@ColonelKillaBee I'm holding out for the most badass Arminius reveal where Bardok destroys the DC's armies in one fell swoop.

[ColonelKillaBee]

Just now, TheCzarsHussar said:

Didn't know that piece of character, it certainly makes more sense why he'd be willing to betray the pact, since neither he nor his possessions would be hampered.

@ColonelKillaBee I'm holding out for the most badass Arminius reveal where Bardok destroys the DC's armies in one fell swoop.

To me he is already arminius. The army he defeated was the pacts. They are also the “legion” of Cyrodiil in pvp. They have the most numbers and fight the most organized.

[ColonelKillaBee]

Ahtu is the one yelling “Bardok! Bring me my legions!”

Bardok is Arminius. Except that DC isn’t his people, but then neither are the pact

[ColonelKillaBee]

Ahtu is the name of a lovecraftian god tree btw  considered the avatar of Nyarlathotep

[TheCzarsHussar]

Just now, ColonelKillaBee said:

To me he is already arminius. The army he defeated was the pacts. They are also the “legion” of Cyrodiil in pvp. They have the most numbers and fight the most organized.

Bardok crippled the EP? Such wanton slaughter of kinsmen!.. and knife ears....and living boots. 

Okay so it's like 1/3rd bad.

[TheCzarsHussar]

1 minute ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Except that DC isn’t his people, but then neither are the pact

A lowly tarnished

[ColonelKillaBee]

Just now, TheCzarsHussar said:

Bardok crippled the EP? Such wanton slaughter of kinsmen!.. and knife ears....and living boots. 

Okay so it's like 1/3rd bad.

Initially. They recovered quick but my only real goal was to humble them and the guy that runs the faction in zone chat.

I definitely did that lol and they lost the month long campaign because of my leading on DC

[TheCzarsHussar]

2 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Ahtu

Is this a player? Because I couldn't find anything about him with google.

[TheCzarsHussar]

Just now, ColonelKillaBee said:

Initially. They recovered quick but my only real goal was to humble them and the guy that runs the faction in zone chat.

I definitely did that lol and they lost the month long campaign because of my leading on DC

In terms of roleplaying, where does Bardok sit if Western Skyrim and the DC comes to blows? Will he answer his own kingship or remain in his lofty graces with King Breh'on?