Civil War Aftermath OOC #4

[BigBossBalrog]

I know we got the Hagravens; but I kinda would have liked a giant chicken house in Falkreath like the Baba Yaga 

[The Good Doctor]

Well if it was only in question before, it now seems a lot more likely that Dales is a crazy person.  Though considering what he said about this encounter being a sort of 'congratulations’ to her for overcoming the madness of her depression, maybe she isn’t. She was just on the brink.

 

"Well yes-I guess there was that moldy scroll and that hideous leather cowl. I digress. You can't steal what you already own, boy!" 

I liked this line.  And don’t think I didn’t catch this one:

"Always forward, never back. Is the concept of time correct? Is time relevant? It matters not. One way or another, I fear that our time has run out!"

Repeating your other self like this is just... crazy.

The part where his memories seemed to sort out enough to remember that she reminded him of someone was my favorite.

"His voice became morbidly melomaniac, as if his insanity pulled from another, much darker and sadder place, "He too always though of others before himself; and it killed him."

Besides being a genuinely sympathetic moment for Sheo, I like the idea of the Hero's once-mortal memories actually feeding into the Madgod's insanity. It’s as if he’s even more complete in his madness now than he was before Shivering Isles, because he has these depressing new mortal memories of pain and loss to draw from. 

Then again, this is Sheogorath. That 'someone' could be the Adoring Fan.  

[The Good Doctor]

I’ve got a theory. Maybe don’t read this if you haven’t seen the new Joker movie but are planning to. It contains a pretty big spoiler for it, and that film is worth watching without knowing anything.

 

The Joker is shown completely from the POV of a crazy person, so you never really know if what you’re watching is actually happening or if it’s just a figment of his imagination. The line becomes really blurred as the movie progresses and it’s pretty cool. He imagines himself taking part in events that never even happened, but you don’t know it until after the fact.

Sheogorath does visit mortals, though it’s usually not just to casually hand them a gift. My theory is that he did visit her, and this friendly visit you wrote is how she perceived it, but in reality she actually stole the key herself at some point in a Joker-like episode. It would still be considered a "gift" from Sheogorath, as this is not something she would’ve done while in her own right mind. The facts that all of this post seemed to be in her head, and that the key was already in her pocket, make me think so.

[BigBossBalrog]

3 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Well if it was only in question before, I’m now pretty sure Dales is actually a crazy person.  Though considering what he said about this encounter being a sort of 'congratulations’ to her for overcoming the madness of her depression, maybe she isn’t.

 

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"Well yes-I guess there was that moldy scroll and that hideous leather cowl. I digress. You can't steal what you already own, boy!" 

I liked this line.  And don’t think I didn’t catch this one:

"Always forward, never back. Is the concept of time correct? Is time relevant? It matters not. One way or another, I fear that our time has run out!"

Repeating your other self like this is just... crazy.

The part where his memories seemed to sort out enough to remember that she reminded him of someone was my favorite.

"His voice became morbidly melomaniac, as if his insanity pulled from another, much darker and sadder place, "He too always though of others before himself; and it killed him."

Besides being a genuinely sympathetic moment for Sheo, I like the idea of the Hero's once-mortal memories actually feeding into the Madgod's insanity. It’s as if he’s even more complete in his madness now than he was before Shivering Isles, because he has these depressing new mortal memories of pain and loss to draw from. 

Then again, this is Sheogorath. That 'someone' could be the Adoring Fan.  

I thought it's been clear for two chapters that Dale is crazy; and I always thought she'd get along with

 

Sheo. 

I was inspired by this part from Legends 

I would imagine it's not nearly as traumatic as that example; but glimpsing the boring old hero he was isn't on the top of Sheo's head, except when he can use it as a joke    He was manifesting the "Dementia" side of his sphere so to speak; the side that Dales is most in-tune with (her madness is the "sad" type more often then not.) I tried representing him in different ways; Sheo's been dramatically different (very fitting for his character) in his depictions in the games; so I tried making him act like his different personalities, while unifying them to a degree.

It was very hard writing his lines; I took a tiny handful from the Oblivion and rewrote them (barring his one about time, which was taken wholesale intentionally ), but for the rest I just tried to sound like how I imagined him to sound. 

If you hadn't noticed; i've been having characters compare Dales to people they knew from the Heartland's history; Dunmaor was seeing her as Alessia, Modryn was projecting Vilena Donton onto her, and I presume Sheo was seeing Martin on her face (or the Adoring Fan if you prefer )

 

[The Good Doctor]

13 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

 

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Sheo. 

I was inspired by this part from Legends 

I would imagine it's not nearly as traumatic as that example; but glimpsing the boring old hero he was isn't on the top of Sheo's head, except when he can use it as a joke    He was manifesting the "Dementia" side of his sphere so to speak; the side that Dales is most in-tune with (her madness is the "sad" type more often then not.) I tried representing him in different ways; Sheo's been dramatically different (very fitting for his character) in his depictions in the games; so I tried making him act like his different personalities, while unifying them to a degree.

It was very hard writing his lines; I took a tiny handful from the Oblivion and rewrote them (barring his one about time, which was taken wholesale intentionally ), but for the rest I just tried to sound like how I imagined him to sound. 

If you hadn't noticed; i've been having characters compare Dales to people they knew from the Heartland's history; Dunmaor was seeing her as Alessia, Modryn was projecting Vilena Donton onto her, and I presume Sheo was seeing Martin on her face (or the Adoring Fan if you prefer )

 

Martin was the obvious answer and what I figured you were going for. But because it’s Sheo, anything is possible.   Even funnier if the Fan’s death was because the demented ass Grand Champion pushed him off Dive Rock.  

Time for super duper tinfoily theorizing.

Sheo thought Dales looked like Martin because she and Martin are kin!!!

Cosades speculated that Martin’s mother was a woman named 'Gemile' which sounds Breton to me. And I doubt Uriel was sleeping around in lowborn circles so she could’ve easily been a noble. Maybe part of the Motierre family?

[BigBossBalrog]

1 minute ago, The Good Doctor said:

 

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Martin was the obvious answer and what I figured you were going for. But because it’s Sheo, anything is possible.   Even funnier if the Fan’s death was because the demented ass Grand Champion pushed him off Dive Rock.  

Time for super duper tinfoily theorizing.

Sheo thought Dales looked like Martin because she and Martin are kin!!!

Cosades speculated that Martin’s mother was a woman named 'Gemile' which sounds Breton to me. And I doubt Uriel was sleeping around in lowborn circles so she could’ve easily been a noble. Maybe part of the Motierre family?

Now whose the one acting like a madman  

[The Good Doctor]

13 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

I thought it's been clear for two chapters that Dale is crazy;

There’s crazy and then there’s

having visions of the god of madness causing your men to mutilate themselves crazy. 

[The Good Doctor]

36 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

Now whose the one acting like a madman  

This is your brain after reading too much ASoIaF. You just constantly analyze people’s ages, hair colors, jawlines, etc. like a deranged eugenist in a desperate effort to connect them to whatever obscure bloodlines you can.

Mance Rayder is secretly a Targaryen, Tyrion is the time traveling son of Danaerys and Khal Drogo, Dales is a secret cousin of Martin the Bastard, Boldir and the Tynes are siblings, Rey’s grandparents were Sheev and Queen Padme’s body double, and Justin Trudeau is a Castro.

[BigBossBalrog]

7 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

There’s crazy and then there’s

 

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having visions of the god of madness causing your men to mutilate themselves crazy. 

 

All Dales saw was a finely dressed cat offering her cheese and fine wine.

[BigBossBalrog]

What's ironic is Sheo is basically the god of "roll to see if you get tortured to death" Princes; depending on the mood you catch him in, he can either be very pleasant, or unimaginably horrible; like in Legends and the lore every five seconds). Even if he actually sought her out; since Dales is/was/maybe already crazy, he was nothing but (mostly; the same can't be said for her men) cordial towards her; and seemed to sympathize with "Little Dales". So he's right, her madness really was a blessing 

[TheCzarsHussar]

I like Doc's theory both about the movie and how Dales could have deliriously came upon the key herself.

Honestly the only hickup I had of the post was why Sheo appeared as the Khajiit aspect at the end?

[TheCzarsHussar]

Unless.... gasp

Dales is a furry.

[BigBossBalrog]

3 minutes ago, TheCzarsHussar said:

 

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I like Doc's theory both about the movie and how Dales could have deliriously came upon the key herself.

Honestly the only hickup I had of the post was why Sheo appeared as the Khajiit aspect at the end?

 

 

He didn't, he just manifested his cat eyes 

[TheCzarsHussar]

Just now, BigBossBalrog said:

 

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He didn't, he just manifested his cat eyes 

Totally forgot he has eye slits, it's been way too long since I played Oblivion

[The Good Doctor]

@BigBossBalrog

" With a yelp, she brought herself up with a deep yawn "

Well? Did she yelp or did she yawn?! Which one is it @BigBossBalrog?!!

[BigBossBalrog]

Just now, The Good Doctor said:

@BigBossBalrog

 

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" With a yelp, she brought herself up with a deep yawn "

Well? Did she yelp or did she yawn?! Which one is it @BigBossBalrog?!!

"Dales I want to know what the fucking numbers are!" 

"IT WAS LORGAR! LORGAR DID IT!"

"LORGAR DOSEN'T EXIST!" 

[BigBossBalrog]

BTW; I wanted to give more character to Cyrodiil when I made up the RP's rendition of Sutch, and I didn't want to make them "Hur Der there just Nords" so I went with a more hardcore Colovian culture; Imperialized proto-barbarians. If mainstrem Imperials are like fantasy Romans, and the Nords are Fantasy Scandinavians, then Sutchians are kinda like fantasy dark ages Welsh. They have very Nordic features  (mainly shaggy beards, stout strength, and wild hair), alongside customs but are still mostly identifiable as Imperials. Kinda based them off the Roman Barbarian Legionaries from Total War. 

[The Good Doctor]

@BigBossBalrog finished.  Some thoughts below.

 

This line stood out to me.

"... other provincials often say the only thing White-Gold cares about is Cyrodiil, but I disagree.  The Ruby Throne did nothing while bandits tore apart Anvil, when brigades roamed the forests burning and raping, and destroying the livehood of Imperial citizens ..."

I’ll say again, I like Sutch. It tracks well with the stories we’ve heard of Cyrodiil’s countryside during and after the Great War. And the Colovian estates have a long history of independent-minded leaders not thinking much of the Imperial City or its empires. I can absolutely see such a place becoming very bitter towards the Empire after getting ravaged while Mede called his Legions further east. Their tie-in with the Motierre family makes sense too, and it’s not at all hard to believe that many would have a particular hatred for Dales after what her father did.

The Amorians sound interesting (though their name is distractingly close to Atmorans  could be they’re related, though). They sound like a cool concept, and if I’m being honest, I kind of wish more of the post had focused on their story. The tale began interestingly enough, but then it kind of turned into the lesbian fox story and the interesting minotaur bastard Nedic people just kinda got dropped without ever getting tied back in.

I do find some of the romance stuff awkward. Mainly because whenever it comes up Dales tends to put up blind spots and act like a younger, less mature version of herself again. And I’m much more into Dales when she exudes power and nobility as an empress than when she’s panting over girls like a teenager. And I think I liked the flashbacks about childhood and parents so much because they told us new things about her character while also showing how far she’d come, whereas how she manages her love life feels thoroughly explored.
 

This was my favorite line:

“Does Rex Dales make it a habit to mess with the private affairs of other people's families?” 

“I do when it ruins the perfectly good food set before me."

Fuckin’ got her.  Great answer, Dales.

[BigBossBalrog]

2 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

@BigBossBalrog finished.  Some thoughts below.

 

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This line stood out to me.

"... other provincials often say the only thing White-Gold cares about is Cyrodiil, but I disagree.  The Ruby Throne did nothing while bandits tore apart Anvil, when brigades roamed the forests burning and raping, and destroying the livehood of Imperial citizens ..."

I’ll say again, I like Sutch. It tracks well with the stories we’ve heard of Cyrodiil’s countryside during and after the Great War. And the Colovian estates have a long history of independent-minded leaders not thinking much of the Imperial City or its empires. I can absolutely see such a place becoming very bitter towards the Empire after getting ravaged while Mede called his Legions further east. Their tie-in with the Motierre family makes sense too, and it’s not at all hard to believe that many would have a particular hatred for Dales after what her father did.

The Amorians sound interesting (though their name is distractingly close to Atmorans  could be they’re related, though). They sound like a cool concept, and if I’m being honest, I kind of wish more of the post had focused on their story. The tale began interestingly enough, but then it kind of turned into the lesbian fox story and the interesting minotaur bastard Nedic people just kinda got dropped without ever getting tied back in.

I do find some of the romance stuff awkward. Mainly because whenever it comes up Dales tends to put up blind spots and act like a younger, less mature version of herself again. And I’m much more into Dales when she exudes power and nobility as an empress than when she’s panting over girls like a teenager. And I think I liked the flashbacks about childhood and parents so much because they told us new things about her character while also showing how far she’d come.
 

This was my favorite line:

 

“Does Rex Dales make it a habit to mess with the private affairs of other people's families?” 

“I do when it ruins the perfectly good food set before me."

Fuckin’ got her.  Great answer, Dales.

 

I was going to expand on it; but I thought nobody here woudl want to read about a lesbian fox; it's actually not a lesbian fox though The story was taken wholeale from the Tamamizu Monogatari; a very old (most people think it's from the 1200's) folktale from Japan about a male fox who falls in love with a maiden, and shapeshifts only to discover they can only take the form of a girl.  It was my attempt of sprinkling a little bit of oriental culture into Cyrodiil, alongside Nibense cuisine being distinctively Chinese, and Valeria's features being a tiny bit Chinese from her mothers side. 

Don't worry you'll hear more of them 

After hearing about how much the Heartland was in the shitter from Blades, I would imagine there would be tons of Imperials very bitter towards the royalty, alongside the concept of the Empire themselves. Trying to control the other provinces while your people are suffering in abject horror in their own country. So yeah, I thought Sutch would be an interesting example of an entire sub-culture of Imperials being pissed off at the Empire 

I know 99.9 of Dales conquests are annoying (there annoying to me now too) but when I decided to write Dales differently I made a promise i'd still represent her vices in a more controlled degree. Dales just can't talk to girls her age without getting awkward  And this I intentionally wrote it awkward, because Valeria has barely interacted with girls her age as well.

You saw it romantic?  I tried writing it as two lonely people gaining a kinship with one another based on their shared loneliness 

[BigBossBalrog]

I'll never forgive Bethesda for taking Ming/Roman Empire away from us   

[The Good Doctor]

I don't think the Nibenese naturally have an oriental look to them. If any humans do or did, it would probably have been the natives of Akavir. Though Akaviri did intermix with the Nibenese nobility somewhat during the Potentates' rule in the 2nd Era, so perhaps some of those traits would've worked their way into certain family trees.

14 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

Spoiler

You saw it romantic?  I tried writing it as two lonely people gaining a kinship with one another based on their shared loneliness 

I saw it as romantic kinda the same way I saw Rey and Kylo Ren as romantic. That is, not at all, but it feels like what's happening.  

It seems like there is lots of subtext to suggest that something is happening here, like the panting, the hand-holding, and the multiple instances where one of them brings up female romances. But at the same time, everything they've said feels like it can only naturally conclude with Valeria hating Dales, and hating her so viscerally that it would take some serious actions to undo.

[BigBossBalrog]

41 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

 

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I don't think the Nibenese naturally have an oriental look to them. If any humans do or did, it would probably have been the natives of Akavir. Though Akaviri did intermix with the Nibenese nobility somewhat during the Potentates' rule in the 2nd Era, so perhaps some of those traits would've worked their way into certain family trees.

I saw it as romantic kinda the same way I saw Rey and Kylo Ren as romantic. That is, not at all, but it feels like what's happening.  

It seems like there is lots of subtext to suggest that something is happening here, like the panting, the hand-holding, and the multiple instances where one of them brings up female romances. But at the same time, everything they've said feels like it can only naturally conclude with Valeria hating Dales, and hating her so viscerally that it would take some serious actions to undo.

 

 

I'll get my next commission as this but with Dales and the Tribune 

I thought if I got Dales a female companion (i'm not saying it's romantic), who wasn't a starstruck schoolgirl, but a bitter, hatefilled Tribune tomboy would be an improvement but maybe I was wrong  

[The Good Doctor]

 

53 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

I thought if I got Dales a female companion (i'm not saying it's romantic), who wasn't a starstruck schoolgirl, but a bitter, hatefilled Tribune tomboy would be an improvement but maybe I was wrong 

I definitely wouldn’t say you were wrong. I DO consider Tribune tomboys an improvement over schoolgirls. But then, I hate schoolgirls.  Nothing personal. It’s not just the ones you write. All of them are terrible. Every single one in every piece of media ever.

I am certainly okay with such a character becoming a companion for Dales. Hell, even romantically can work. It’s just that she spent ten minutes breaking down why she absolutely positively hates Dales and her family more than anyone in the world, and has felt this way for pretty much her entire life. After that, I found it strange that her very next act was to sit down and hold hands with her.

I believe that anything can happen, so long as it’s written well. I’ve got like ten thousand RP notes saved in my solo PMs, but I’m pretty sure one of them even includes ways Boldir could end up befriending Lorgar.  It’s possible, but we’d have to work hard to write a story where it feels earned. 

I’m actually really rooting for Dales to be liked (or better yet, respected) by the people of Sutch, including Valeria. Could happen soon, or it could happen much later during or after the war, but that is something I’d love to see, as it would be a great redemption story for her family. But I want to see her to earn it.

[BigBossBalrog]

10 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

 

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I definitely wouldn’t say you were wrong. But I hate schoolgirls.  Nothing personal. It’s not just yours. All of them are terrible. Every single one.

I am certainly okay with such a character becoming a companion for Dales. Hell, even romantically can work. It’s just that she spent ten minutes breaking down why she absolutely positively hates Dales and her family more than anyone in the world, and has felt this way for pretty much her entire life. After that, I found it strange that her very next act was to sit down and hold hands with her.

I believe that anything can happen, so long as it’s written well. I’ve got like ten thousand RP notes saved in my solo PMs, but I’m pretty sure some of them even includes ways Boldir could end up befriending Lorgar.  It’s possible, but we’d have to work hard to write a story where it feels earned. 

I’m actually really rooting for Dales to be liked (or better yet, respected) by the people of Sutch, including Valeria. Could happen soon, or it could happen much later during or after the war, but that is something I’d love to see, as it would be a great redemption story for her family. But I want to see her to earn it.

 

Fair enough 

I might as well say it, cause I don't think anyone has said anything about it. (I tried hinting at it several times; I hate saying instead of showing so I kinda failed as a writer) Not really a spoiler; the reason why Valeria was, while still hostile, a little more empathetic towards the Empress this time was because i've subtly implied there's something off with Valeria, and that something is she's akin to Jarl Ravencrone from Skyrim, she's got the "gift" so to speak, I thought it was clear when I showed that she was seeing some of Dales memories when they touched each other by accident in the post before, and that she was talking about a Dominion assassin's blade that she wouldn't know otherwise.

She's seen how miserable and horrible her life's been, so while she still hates her as the Empress, she's somewhat sympathetic to Dales as a person, unlike the rest of her family.  

[The Good Doctor]

24 minutes ago, BigBossBalrog said:

(I tried hinting at it several times; I hate saying instead of showing so I kinda failed as a writer)

I wouldn’t go that far. When posts are written weeks apart, and the reader base largely consists of only 2-5 people, subtle hints are much more likely to be missed. It’s not like a novel where every chapter can be read back-to-back so we don’t forget many details, and there are thousands of readers who can collectively analyze every single word and share their findings with each other.

I know how it feels to imply something in your writing that nobody catches or mentions. It kinda sucks.  But it’s not necessarily your fault.

 

I didn’t pick up that Valeria was some kind of seer, but even without knowing that, it was clear enough in this post that she understood and empathized with Dales to some degree. But even so, Valeria was pretty clear about how much she hated her even after expressing that empathy, so it seemed to me like those feelings persisted regardless.