Roleplayer’s Off Topic Thread #15

[Celan]

13 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

The opening came along with Blood and Wine. They knew by then that she wasn’t a Bruxa.

The opening for you is obviously significant. I don't consider it such. It's just atmosphere.

11 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

 I never said it wasn’t speculative, but that doesn’t mean that it is without support. I mean for 1, he’s already way stronger than the other higher vampire we saw in the base game

No support for that.

7 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

 Even ignoring Regis, even ignoring Detlaff,  that base game higher vampire  proves that your giirl can be physically weak enough for Geralt to beat. 

 That was an actual true blue higher vampire, and we beat him one-on-one face-to-face alone. He may not stay dead, but we did kill him.

No. You didn't.

6 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

There’s also the fact that Detlaff kicks his ass in like ten seconds.

I don’t know where Orianna falls in all this but Detlaff is at least stronger than two of the four higher vampires we’ve encountered. 

They're pretty much toe to toe until Regis has a wall fall on him, and realistically he would have misted out of that. I was even thinking during the fight "no way Regis would be knocked out."

 

Anyway, horse, dead--> kicked

[ColonelKillaBee]

Just now, Celan said:

No support for that

Nigga, did you even do that side quest? If you did, that’s all the support I need. That fight was cheese, and we beat him without even having Regis collapse in ten seconds to start it off, lol.

He was the one that believed in the Eternal Fire.

2 minutes ago, Celan said:

 

No. You didn't.

.....

Im gonna guess you have no idea what quest I’m talking about, because yes.... you fucking did.

[ColonelKillaBee]

 

[Celan]

3 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Nigga, did you even do that side quest? If you did, that’s all the support I need. That fight was cheese, and we beat him without even having Regis collapse in ten seconds to start it off, lol.

He was the one that believed in the Eternal Fire.

.....

Im gonna guess you have no idea what quest I’m talking about, because yes.... you fucking did.

Oh, you're talking about the katakan in Novigrad? Anyway, the point still stands- katakans aren't on the same level as Dettlaff and Regis.

That fight was very easy. As a fight with Orianna would be, if indeed she was a bruxa. So, yeah. Here we are again.

[The Good Doctor]

4 minutes ago, Celan said:

The opening for you is obviously significant. I don't consider it such. It's just atmosphere.

All the things CDPR can do for atmosphere and they were like “ya know what, let’s do an updated version of the trailer where Geralt kills Orianna.” 

And then to top it off they include dialogue where Geralt is like “Ya know what, let’s threaten to go after this updated version of Orianna exactly like in the trailer.”

There is way more evidence to him following through than your own claims that he can’t do it and that following through makes no sense.

[ColonelKillaBee]

It wasn’t a katakan, look at the video. He’s a higher vampire.

[Celan]

Just now, The Good Doctor said:

All the things CDPR can do for atmosphere and they were like “ya know what, let’s do an updated version of the trailer where Geralt kills Orianna.” 

And then to top it off they include dialogue where Geralt is like “Ya know what, let’s threaten to go after this updated version of Orianna exactly like in the trailer.”

There is way more evidence to him following through than your own claims that he can’t do it and that following through makes no sense.

Because it's the trailer? You can make it into extragame canon if you like. AGAIN, if they had wanted it to be in the game, they would have put it there. Or made an epilogue slide, at least.

[ColonelKillaBee]

Higher vampires can change into “bats” or beastlike vampire forms. That, was his form.

Not all higher vampires are on the same level in power or intelligence.

[Celan]

Just now, ColonelKillaBee said:

It wasn’t a katakan, look at the video. He’s a higher vampire.

He's a katakan, just like bruxae can assume human form and then not. Like bruxae you fight out and about in Beauclair.

I don't know what to tell you. CDPR didn't help by retconning, but this isn't a point.

[ColonelKillaBee]

Just now, Celan said:

He's a katakan, just like bruxae can assume human form and then not. Like bruxae you fight out and about in Beauclair.

I don't know what to tell you. CDPR didn't help by retconning, but this isn't a point.

Katakan don’t have human forms.

Youre wrong, Celan... even after the dlc they gave Regis that Gwen card with a similar bestial form backing up exactly what I’m saying

[ColonelKillaBee]

In fact, the in game bestiary entry doesn’t even have him classified as katakan, he’s classified as higher vampire, same as the quest name.

[ColonelKillaBee]

And besides that... do you really think a Katakan that’s faced Witchers would be unaware that Witchers clap Katakans on a regular basis?

The one in that video was pretty certain Geralts never faced his kind before.

[The Good Doctor]

15 minutes ago, Celan said:

Because it's the trailer? You can make it into extragame canon if you like. AGAIN, if they had wanted it to be in the game, they would have put it there. Or made an epilogue slide, at least.

The story was over. Following the happy ending with a much less significant contract as part of the main quest would’ve been anticlimactic. We don’t need to see Geralt doing it any more than we need to see Witcher Ciri hunting monsters to know that she went on to do that. The implication was there in the game.

Besides, trailers are at least semi-canon already. Going back to Witcher 2 when Letho killed Demavend, and then again when Witcher 3 winked at the “Killing monsters” trailer taking place during their search for Yen before the game. This one with him killing Orianna is an obvious follow-up to him saying in-game that he’s going to do that.

Again, I’m not saying that it 100% has to canonically happen. You’re the one who spoke in absolutes and said that he couldn’t do it and that it didn’t make sense, which has been my point of contention from the start.

[Celan]

9 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

The story was over. Following the happy ending with a much less significant contract as part of the main quest would’ve been anticlimactic. We don’t need to see Geralt doing it any more than we need to see Witcher Ciri hunting monsters to know that she went on to do that. The implication was there in the game.

Besides, trailers are at least semi-canon already. Going back to Witcher 2 when Letho killed Demavend, and then again when Witcher 3 winked at the “Killing monsters” trailer taking place during their search for Yen before the game. This one with him killing Orianna is an obvious follow-up to him saying in-game that he’s going to do that.

Again, I’m not saying that it 100% has to canonically happen. You’re the one who spoke in absolutes and said that he couldn’t do it and that it didn’t make sense, which has been my point of contention from the start.

They might be semi-canon, if not retconned by the game- as this one is. The game takes precedence.

If they had wanted to conclude Orianna's story, they'd have put it in the epilogue, but of course that's forcing an outcome on the player.

I didn't say he wouldn't do it. I said the opposite, that he might. But I do think it doesn't make sense with what is presented of Orianna in the game alone. She obviously was originally intended to be something else.

*By the way, I also thought this after playing out the scene in the orphanage- that it wasn't realistic that Geralt would go after her. Not with what had been presented of their kind.

17 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

In fact, the in game bestiary entry doesn’t even have him classified as katakan, he’s classified as higher vampire, same as the quest name.

As I said, katakans, bruxae, alps who are sentient are sometimes called higher vampires even if they're not what Regis describes- hence the bruxae in Witcher 1 and those you see as hooded female human figures around Beauclair.

[ColonelKillaBee]

55 minutes ago, Celan said:

As I said, katakans, bruxae, alps who are sentient are sometimes called higher vampires even if they're not what Regis describes- hence the bruxae in Witcher 1 and those you see as hooded female human figures around Beauclair.

And as I said, they're mistaken. 

The game never classifies this vampire as a katakan, before or after dlc. He isn't. If you have a saved game after doing that mission, check your bestiary.

Then look at Regis' alternate gwent card, and tell me that doesn't look like a katakan or an ekimmara or any of the other lesser vampires we know of.

Higher Vampires have the power to turn into the forms of lesser ones.

Therefore it's quite possible Orianna's bestial vampire form is a Bruxa.

[Celan]

1 minute ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

And as I said, they're mistaken.

It's book lore. No one's mistaken. Granted, the terminology is confusing. Some people call certain alps, bruxae and katakans higher vampires even though they're not the same thing as Regis and Dettlaff.

Throughout the games there have been a few vampires who take human forms but are easily defeated. This is what you see in the trailer. That is not what you see of Regis and Dettlaff, who can each evaporate whole armies without wrinkling their cuffs. Once CDPR decided to put Orianna on that plane, they retconned the trailer.

[ColonelKillaBee]

57 minutes ago, Celan said:

It's book lore. No one's mistaken. Granted, the terminology is confusing. Some people call certain alps, bruxae and katakans higher vampires even though they're not the same thing as Regis and Dettlaff.

Throughout the games there have been a few vampires who take human forms but are easily defeated. This is what you see in the trailer. That is not what you see of Regis and Dettlaff, who can each evaporate whole armies without wrinkling their cuffs. Once CDPR decided to put Orianna on that plane, they retconned the trailer.

It's book lore, its bestiary lore... it's just lore. Again, the bestiary that's updated from that quest, is the higher vampire bestiary. The terminology and classification is confusing at first yes, but both that Higher Vampire's behavior and his bestiary make it clear cut, he's not a katakan.

And they most certainly didn't retcon the trailer when they both included her character, and reference the trailer in dialogue. 

It is a far shorter leap to assume that the Bruxa form is her bestial form, then to assume they simply threw that all out the window along with the separation of true higher vampires like Regis, and that of Bruxae and Katakans.

[The Good Doctor]

6 minutes ago, Celan said:

They might be semi-canon, if not retconned by the game- as this one is. The game takes precedence.

If they had wanted to conclude Orianna's story, they'd have put it in the epilogue, but of course that's forcing an outcome on the player.

The game went on to allude to the confrontation still happening two more times after they retconned Orianna. The very fact that they made her appearance a carbon copy of the trailer vamp is a reference to it.

They didn’t conclude her story. But we’ve got far more reason to believe Geralt keeps his promise if he makes it than we do that he chickens out. Not everything has to be shown in the game. It was implied as strongly as her character was worth.

13 minutes ago, Celan said:

I didn't say he wouldn't do it. I said the opposite, that he might. But I do think it doesn't make sense with what is presented of Orianna in the game alone. She obviously was originally intended to be something else.

*By the way, I also thought this after playing out the scene in the orphanage- that it wasn't realistic that Geralt would go after her. Not with what had been presented of their kind.

You also said that he couldn’t do it. 

I don’t see how it doesn’t make sense. Geralt has never shied away from putting himself in danger to protect innocents. He didn’t quiver at the prospect of hunting Detlaff over a handful of murders. Why would it be any different for Orianna over using children as cattle?

[ColonelKillaBee]

And I don't see you saying anything about Regis' gwent card which shows him clearly in a lesser vampire form.

[Celan]

6 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

And they most certainly didn't retcon the trailer when they both included her character, and reference the trailer in dialogue.

They fundamentally changed what the character is. So how a fight would go down with her changes entirely.

You don't see any difference between the generic bruxae, the Novigrad doctor, the trailer... and Regis and Dettlaff? Really?

Okay. Obviously not going to change your mind.

[The Good Doctor]

Backing up a bit, this is really funny. I don’t know anyone but us who could spend five pages arguing about freaking Orianna.  

I’m tapping out. It was fun.

[ColonelKillaBee]

56 minutes ago, Celan said:

They fundamentally changed what the character is. So how a fight would go down with her changes entirely.

You don't see any difference between the generic bruxae, the Novigrad doctor, the trailer... and Regis and Dettlaff? Really?

Okay. Obviously not going to change your mind.

Obviously I do, which is my point in the first place, that not all higher vampires are the same or are just as powerful.

If you want to change my mind you're gonna have to email CDPR and ask why they put the doctor in the same bestiary as Regis and Detlaff. And ask why Regis' bestial form looks like a lesser vamp, just like the doctor.

The only reason he's missing the one form where his claws extend is because all that was added in DLC.

[ColonelKillaBee]

56 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Backing up a bit, this is really funny. I don’t know anyone but us who could spend five pages arguing about freaking Orianna.  

I’m tapping out. It was fun.

Same, the post above me is my last comment on the matter.

[ColonelKillaBee]

@The Good Doctor How did you get the Bloodroot Motif? Lucky are you just Git Gud? Lol. I ask because a friend of mine said he's got a level 500 character on ESO and still never managed to get a team through that dungeon.

edit:

At this point I'm thinking it'll be easier just to save the cash and buy it from a guild in game.

[Celan]

12 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Obviously I do, which is my point in the first place, that not all higher vampires are the same or are just as powerful.

If you want to change my mind you're gonna have to email CDPR and ask why they put the doctor in the same bestiary as Regis and Detlaff. And ask why Regis' bestial form looks like a lesser vamp, just like the doctor.

The only reason he's missing the one form where his claws extend is because all that was added in DLC.

You write and ask them why they say in Blood and Wine that only a higher vampire can kill another higher vampire.