The Good Doctor Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 32 minutes ago, Centurion said: think it’s stated that the NCR has the largest population in the know world and they are estimated at around 700,000 (don’t quote me lol) which would place their military size somewhere at about 7,000 give or take, (based on the American metric of only 1% of the population serving in the armed forces) That was the NCR’s population during Fallout 2, around forty years ago. Considering that their resource problems are only just now starting to arise (and not expected to be felt until the future), they would’ve almost certainly experienced exponential population growth during that time. They could easily number well over a million by now. Maybe more. That 1% number for America doesn’t apply to times when we’ve drafted or recruited very heavily. And the NCR seems to be taking these measures to a crazy extreme during the New Vegas timeline. They’re recruiting faster than they can train. So I think the numbers advantage would be even more considerable than you’re giving them credit for. By a lot. 32 minutes ago, Centurion said: In an all out fight, no Maxson wouldn’t win, but if he adopted the tactics (and not the hiding, In talking about the damn near crippling of the Republic) of and possible adopting the help of the Western Chapters, I think he’d have a fighting chance. Especially with his big bad murder robots and air superiority. The Western chapters were able to hurt the NCR the same way that al-Quada was able to hurt America. But I don’t believe that there was any chance that they could’ve won that fight. Power armor will only go so far against a full fledged nation with access to nearly equal caliber weaponry (as Veronica realizes somewhat fearfully when she sees the Van Graffs). And Maxson has never been shown to use the guerilla-style tactics that the western bunkers used. His advantages in the east come from his dominating presence and air superiority, which he would lose quickly in the West where they have vertibirds of their own and can probably scrap together some better anti-air weapons than what the Minutemen used against the Prydwen. 32 minutes ago, Centurion said: As for the Legion, weeelllll I know the game paints it as their tactics are effective, bbbuuutttttt T-60 power armor with Gatling lasers and Vertibirds vs football pads, machetes, some mixed matched rifles. You know.... The shit Gear is for recruits to learn how to survive without needing the really good gear. The Legion packs heat. And .50 cal rifles will put you down no matter what kind of power armor you’re wearing. They’re also gonna use Frumentarii to their full advantage. And just one of those guys would be enough to take down the Prydwen, kinda like with the Railroad. 32 minutes ago, Centurion said: As for House. That would be a fight. The securitrons robots have anti air capabilities, anti group capibilties, and anti personnel capabilities, plus the are being controlled from a man miles away from the battle. It be like playing xcom, total war, and Mount & Blade, pick your poison. But I think they’d be able to prevail in the end, but that could be bias speaking. If the securitrons are doing their job of playing defense for Vegas, then I don’t think anyone could take them besides maybe the NCR with very heavy losses. If they’re inexplicably rolling around in the desert while Maxson gets to use hit and run tactics or something, then yeah he might stand a chance. But I think he’s pretty badly outnumbered and outgunned here as well. And if Mr. House and the three families of the Strip come into play, then I can’t see Maxson winning in any event. He’s now up against possibly the smartest man in the last three centuries. Maxson is a badass in Fallout 4 for the same reason that the BoS were badasses in FO1. The Commonwealth and D.C. are underdeveloped shitholes so he is the biggest kid on the block by default. But if dropped in the West, he’d be just like his counterparts. The BoS is far tougher than raiders or tribals, but the toughest enemies they’ve been able to beat are the Enclave and the Institute, both of whom gave them some serious trouble. None of those eastern factions would stand a chance against the full fledged nations and armies out west. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 35 minutes ago, Centurion said: Not even gonna bring up the Courier, because that dude beats three Wasteland powers with his ending. It’s a demigod character because we control him. Honestly even without us controlling him, he’s crazy OP from canon feats alone. Just setting gameplay possibilities aside and looking at his achievements, the guy is ridiculous. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 All good points, but even if the NCR is in the millions, that would raise their troop capacity to somewhere in between 10,000 and 20,000 I doubt it would get much higher than that even with their recruiting rampage. And your right, Maxson presence in the East is dominating because of how underdeveloped it is, but I still think he would be able to hold his own in the West, presuming the Western BoS would accept his arrival and aid, plus Liberty Prime and the Prydwyn. That this literally gives him the Aircraft carrier advantage. 1 Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think he could survive in the west if he tried to keep a low profile. But I don’t think he’d hold his own any better than his counterparts did. Canonically he only has as many vertibirds as can fit on the Prydwen, so what’s that? Six? Ten? And where will he get fuel? I doubt the Enclave Remnants would tell him about their secret stash. The Prydwen could be more of a crutch than a boon. If some farmers could take it down, then the NCR sure can. It’s basically a BoS bunker that his enemies constantly know the location of. That’s awesome when your enemies are super mutants and raiders who will cower at the sight, but not so much when they’re too large and powerful to be intimidated. Liberty Prime is their best tool, but his resilience is hard to gauge since he is indestructible in gameplay until he suddenly isn’t. The Gun Runners are capable of producing high yield mini nukes, though, so I don’t doubt the NCR’s capacity to do as much damage as a falling blimp. 1 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Not saying he’d have an easy time, just that he’d be able to hold his own, even if that means he’s keeping his head down instead of flying his giant steel dick over Shady Sands. But at the end of the day, it’s useless argueing this because they are two different entities in two vastly different situations and points of strength. I was just stating how I could see a possible victory going. But I appreciate the discourse Doc. Always good with you 1 Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Commissions are done Mmmmmm looking good 5 Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I love this shit 1 Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Joking and dumb scenarios aside I think that y’all kinda breezed past Liberty Prime in consideration... that thing had to be taken out by an orbital bombardment of explosions at once, not just a continued assault of them one at a time. If something’s gonna take that out it’s not gonna be NCR it’s gonna be the Boomers. Especially with their bomber. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Centurion said: Commissions are done Hide contents Mmmmmm looking good Raw. The things Ubbe would do to that beardless milkdrinker "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celan Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Regarding defense of Stormcloaks, BoS, etc... we're just hampered by the fact that 98% of the internet can't have a rational discussion about anything. You can write treatises all the day long and you'll still get "shut up you fucking Nazi!" responses most of the time. Or on the other side "fuck yeah, Maxson's coat is awesome!" Along those lines, back when we were having some political discussion or other, I sent @ColonelKillaBee a link to an interesting article on philosophical anarchism. I like this site because it scrapes off the partisan barnacles and gets down to the principles behind different political views. The only thing it's missing is the fact that a lot of people's political commitments are emotional rather than studied- something that Jonathan Haidt calls the elephant vs. the rider. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 hours ago, ColonelKillaBee said: Joking and dumb scenarios aside I think that y’all kinda breezed past Liberty Prime in consideration... We addressed Prime. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 27 minutes ago, Celan said: Regarding defense of Stormcloaks, BoS, etc... we're just hampered by the fact that 98% of the internet can't have a rational discussion about anything. You can write treatises all the day long and you'll still get "shut up you fucking Nazi!" responses most of the time. Or on the other side "fuck yeah, Maxson's coat is awesome!" Along those lines, back when we were having some political discussion or other, I sent @ColonelKillaBee a link to an interesting article on philosophical anarchism. I like this site because it scrapes off the partisan barnacles and gets down to the principles behind different political views. The only thing it's missing is the fact that a lot of people's political commitments are emotional rather than studied- something that Jonathan Haidt calls the elephant vs. the rider. Reveal hidden contents Having further thought about this I initionally said I fell on priori but if that were the case, doesn’t it mean you wouldn’t believe for instance that treason was possible? "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: We addressed Prime. I saw your response, that’s why I said y’all breezed past it. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: I saw your response, that’s why I said y’all breezed past it. I don’t see how stating why they should be able to take out Prime is breezing past it. Prime is invulnerable for gameplay reasons so that he can be taken out in dramatic ways at the end of the story, but realistically a high yield mini nuke oughta be comparable in damage to what took him out (and actually is if we compare the in-game damage of a Big Kid in New Vegas with the SatCom orbital strike). * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witchking of Angmar Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Though I remember being rather disappointed with that orbital strike gun. Mostly because the first target I decided to test it on was the huge mother deathclaw. It only took out 2/3 of the health and then I had a huge angry deathclaw chasing me. 2 Power corrupts, absolute power... is a whole lot of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said: Though I remember being rather disappointed with that orbital strike gun. Mostly because the first target I decided to test it on was the huge mother deathclaw. It only took out 2/3 of the health and then I had a huge angry deathclaw chasing me. The play-test one is really janky. It’s almost all AOE damage and weirdly inconsistent. The scripted attack on Prime is a lot more powerful. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 35 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: I don’t see how stating why they should be able to take out Prime is breezing past it. Prime is invulnerable for gameplay reasons so that he can be taken out in dramatic ways at the end of the story, but realistically a high yield mini nuke oughta be comparable in damage to what took him out (and actually is if we compare the in-game damage of a Big Kid in New Vegas with the SatCom orbital strike). Realistically in this game? Unless they state that in game I’m more inclined to go by the gameplay and say that it would take something more dramatic than a high yield mini nuke. Otherwise the enclave shouldn’t have had nearly as much trouble with it even if it is a surprise attack. It was supposed to aid in winning the war against the Chinese after all. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I said you breezed past it because I think you’re selling it way too short. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: Realistically in this game? Unless they state that in game I’m more inclined to go by the gameplay and say that it would take something more dramatic than a high yield mini nuke. Otherwise the enclave shouldn’t have had nearly as much trouble with it even if it is a surprise attack. It was supposed to aid in winning the war against the Chinese after all. The weapons in this game can disintegrate dudes when realistically that should take gigantic amounts of energy. Moreso than any handheld weapon could hold. It’s a game designed around cartoonish fanfiction of the early 1900s. A giant indestructible robot except by dramatic means is well within their ballpark and that’s obviously what they intended LP to be regardless of what the actual in game damage of the weapon that took him out is. That same weapon used to destroy him took out the entire Citadel and reduced it to a crater. A big kid can’t do that. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 34 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said: Though I remember being rather disappointed with that orbital strike gun. Mostly because the first target I decided to test it on was the huge mother deathclaw. It only took out 2/3 of the health and then I had a huge angry deathclaw chasing me. I missed this but that shows my point pretty well. They definitely weakened the capability of that weapon for balance purposes outside of story moments. That thing should be absolutely devastating otherwise. Finger of God. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Just now, ColonelKillaBee said: Realistically in this game? Yes, based on weapon stats and just common sense. Prime is made of metal. Really tough metal, but not some unbreakable adamantium bullshit. Bullets and weak explosions aren’t going to hurt him, but it’s ridiculous to think that even low level nuclear attacks would have no effect. Nothing sets the orbital strike apart from a Big Kid mini nuke. 4 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: Unless they state that in game I’m more inclined to go by the gameplay and say that it would take something more dramatic than a high yield mini nuke. Otherwise the enclave shouldn’t have had nearly as much trouble with it even if it is a surprise attack. In two games and a DLC, the Enclave have never been shown to use Fat Mans or mini nukes. They were only completed like a month before the bombs fell, which is why we only see a very small number of them locked up in military bases. The NCR found them and the GRA have managed to replicate them and even produce more powerful mini nukes than what existed before the war. 11 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: It was supposed to aid in winning the war against the Chinese after all. The Enclave were way behind America in damage output from what we’ve seen. Their nuclear tech in particular was way behind. 12 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: I said you breezed past it because I think you’re selling it way too short. I’m not selling it short. I said already that it would be their best weapon. And I do think it could do a lot of damage. But one really good weapon that has proven to not be invincible is not going to be enough to take down the NCR. It could devastate individual cities one at a time (if it can walk to them without being stopped), but kinda like the Prydwen I think it’s basically a giant target. I think you’re selling their production capabilities short. And how serious a mini nuke is. 2 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: That same weapon used to destroy him took out the entire Citadel and reduced it to a crater. A big kid can’t do that. It wasn’t one missile that took out the Citadel. It was the entire Enclave payload. A comparable amount of Big Kids probably could do that. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Just now, ColonelKillaBee said: I missed this but that shows my point pretty well. They definitely weakened the capability of that weapon for balance purposes outside of story moments. That thing should be absolutely devastating otherwise. Finger of God. No it doesn’t. I’m not talking about the player version. I’m talking about the actual scripted strike. It does roughly ~1600 damage to a Big Kid’s ~1400 (with room to be higher since player buffs can affect weapons). * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Like I said there ain’t much logic or common sense applied to this series. It’s the same people that let you make infinite generators and water purifiers because your science is high enough. For the reasons I stated in my other posts I hold my ground on this one. No way you can compare a big kid to the weapon that devastated the Citadel. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKillaBee Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said: It wasn’t one missile that took out the Citadel. It was the entire Enclave payload. A comparable amount of Big Kids probably could do that. Alright fair enough but it wasn’t one missile that took out LP either, it was like seven or eight launched at high velocity from the orbit of space dude. edit: and that should definitely take out a mother death claw lol. "Even the hardest dick must go flaccid." -Colonelkillabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Doctor Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said: No way you can compare a big kid to the weapon that devastated the Citadel. I absolutely can if we’re talking dozens of Big Kids like what was used on the Citadel. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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