Roleplayer's Off Topic Thread #41

[BigBossBalrog]

GODZILLA WON AN OSCAR! 

[BigBossBalrog]

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXMM0y7iVdc&t=1s&ab_channel=DeadlineHollywood

[The Good Doctor]

On 3/9/2024 at 6:20 PM, Celan said:

I saw Dune 2 again today and am happy to report that I liked it even better the 2nd time. That happened with the first movie too. I think once I'm reconciled to changes, I can relax and enjoy the movie for what it is. There are at least no changes that I'm baffled about. Still ones I'm uncertain about, but it will depend on what happens in the next one, and so far DV hasn't let me down.

I finally saw it tonight and hot damn it was good! Going off early impressions at least, I think I liked it better than part 1. 

 

While this one lacked Leto and Vladimir was barely in it (and less impressive during the time he was), it was made up for by Paul bringing it home. I’ve gotta give it to Timothy, he crushed the role this time around, and proved me wrong for doubting his ability to play Paul in the later stages of his journey. He brought way more gravitas to the role than I ever imagined from such a twinky-looking dude. Shows the power of acting, and credit where it’s due, the guy is a good actor.

And on that note, Feyd-Rautha Harkonen stole the show in almost every scene he was in. I never thought too much of his character in the book; he was just like the Harkonnens’ "Evil Paul" who barely did anything and existed mainly to be the final boss fight. It’s not too different in the movie, but the role was really elevated by the actor’s performance. He was so sinister and dominant that the tension would rise every time he showed up.

Stilgar was another favorite. Actor killed it, but he also brought some much needed levity to an otherwise very serious movie. His transition from Paul’s friend and mentor into a full-blown jihadist zealot was really well done and probably the best character work apart from Paul’s. And he was probably the most likable person in the whole movie.

Far as complaints go, my biggest is that the other Harkonnens felt nerfed. The Baron didn’t display much cunning and the Beast Rabban was a pathetic idiot. They kinda just get walked over for most of the movie until they die. I wish that the Baron’s plot to make everyone hate Rabban so Feyd could come in and be the hero had been kept from the books; it would’ve helped retain the feeling of him being a ruthless chess master, which the first movie did a better job of capturing.

Channi is probably the weakest link of the cast. I don’t much like her actress, and it didn’t help that she’s also by far the most changed character from the book. How I ultimately feel about that will depend on how part 3 utilizes her.

Similar for Alia. Thought it was a weird choice to not include her, but I guess it’s because Denis didn’t want to do the time skip. Seems a bit of a shame that she won’t get to become known as "St. Alia of the Knife" after killing Vladimir, but there was some nice poetry in Paul getting to be the one who avenges his father. Though I did find it kinda humorous and creative that they included her as a character by just having her telepathically talk to Jessica from the womb. Jessica being so nonchalant about it made me chuckle every time. But the concept did feel very "Dune".

Can’t say enough good about the cinematography. Like part 1, this is one of the best looking sci-fis ever made, but this time we got way more of the epic battles and huge machines, armies, sandworms and whatnot. Loads of parts that had me just thinking "damn, that’s cool".  

[The Good Doctor]

4 hours ago, BigBossBalrog said:

GODZILLA WON AN OSCAR! 

It deserves more but in glad it got the one at least.  Didn’t expect that. 

[BigBossBalrog]

4 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

It deserves more but in glad it got the one at least.  Didn’t expect that. 

Should have gotten best picture to be honest  But apparently, due to when it was released, and some realllly stupid and specific rules, the only thing it was qualified to be nominated for was special effects. Which I think is a big win, because it was the first time a Godzilla movie was nominated at all. 

[BigBossBalrog]

"One of these days you're getting an Oscar big G." 

[Celan]

17 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

I finally saw it tonight and hot damn it was good! Going off early impressions at least, I think I liked it better than part 1. 

 

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While this one lacked Leto and Vladimir was barely in it (and less impressive during the time he was), it was made up for by Paul bringing it home. I’ve gotta give it to Timothy, he crushed the role this time around, and proved me wrong for doubting his ability to play Paul in the later stages of his journey. He brought way more gravitas to the role than I ever imagined from such a twinky-looking dude. Shows the power of acting, and credit where it’s due, the guy is a good actor.

And on that note, Feyd-Rautha Harkonen stole the show in almost every scene he was in. I never thought too much of his character in the book; he was just like the Harkonnens’ "Evil Paul" who barely did anything and existed mainly to be the final boss fight. It’s not too different in the movie, but the role was really elevated by the actor’s performance. He was so sinister and dominant that the tension would rise every time he showed up.

Stilgar was another favorite. Actor killed it, but he also brought some much needed levity to an otherwise very serious movie. His transition from Paul’s friend and mentor into a full-blown jihadist zealot was really well done and probably the best character work apart from Paul’s. And he was probably the most likable person in the whole movie.

Far as complaints go, my biggest is that the other Harkonnens felt nerfed. The Baron didn’t display much cunning and the Beast Rabban was a pathetic idiot. They kinda just get walked over for most of the movie until they die. I wish that the Baron’s plot to make everyone hate Rabban so Feyd could come in and be the hero had been kept from the books; it would’ve helped retain the feeling of him being a ruthless chess master, which the first movie did a better job of capturing.

Channi is probably the weakest link of the cast. I don’t much like her actress, and it didn’t help that she’s also by far the most changed character from the book. How I ultimately feel about that will depend on how part 3 utilizes her.

Similar for Alia. Thought it was a weird choice to not include her, but I guess it’s because Denis didn’t want to do the time skip. Seems a bit of a shame that she won’t get to become known as "St. Alia of the Knife" after killing Vladimir, but there was some nice poetry in Paul getting to be the one who avenges his father. Though I did find it kinda humorous and creative that they included her as a character by just having her telepathically talk to Jessica from the womb.

Can’t say enough good about the cinematography. Like part 1, this is one of the best looking sci-fis ever made, but this time we got way more of the epic battles and huge machines, armies, sandworms and whatnot. Loads of parts that had me just thinking "damn, that’s cool".  

I thought I liked part one better, but I'm insomniac and ended up thinking about part two and plotting out where to see it on an even bigger IMAX screen.  

Agree totally about Feyd. He was much better than I expected, not the joke he was in earlier versions. I thought it was smart to show that he was a "spare Paul" because that's what the BG set him up to be, rather than just as a final boss. All in all the BG were more overtly powerful and sinister in this movie than we see in the early books. I loved how DV made the Harkonnen society be weird because their sun is so harsh that they have no natural light, and I assume also they have to take a lot of chems for this reason (Stilgar talks about the chems in their blood). Again, makes them far cooler than just the "evil for lulz" culture. I think it's interesting that one of the Fremen homes that they were eventually chased out of was Geidi Prime. They learned from the harshness of that world, but their embrace of family and clan and ultimately the dream of a green paradise made them less bankrupt than the Harkonnens. 

Timothee did a good job. Since we talked about his stature, I was reminded that in the first book, Mohiam says that he's "small for his age." With even less of a time skip in the movie, his physicality seems right on for the part. I thought he also did a fine job of walking the line of reluctance to embrace his fate without just being a mopey kid about it.

I also liked the changes to Chani's character least. Especially on my first viewing, it didn't seem to me they had much chemistry and making her the "Uber Fremen" made it even less realistic that she would fall for him. OTOH, their being Fedaykin together were some of my favorite scenes in the movie, and she is depicted as being more like Paul than Stilgar is. She doesn't have Paul's prescience so her being unable to accept what seems to her baffling behavior is understandable. Probably the thing that bothered me most was that they made her, apparently, not be the daughter of Kynes. In fact, Liet is entirely forgotten in film 2. When Stilgar talks about the dream of paradise, he makes no mention of Liet's role in bringing that dream, and Chani explicitly rejects it, even saying that she hates her name "Sihaya." So what happens when the Fremen realize that their dream of paradise will actually kill the planet? Herbert specifically wrote that to be a criticism of an outworlder introducing ecological changes that have unintended negative consequences. Now it will have to be the Fremen dream dying. I guess... that could be okay? It's just the one thing that I'm least certain about.

Also I wonder if they will end up changing Chani's story going forward. Are they going to bow to feminist sensibilities and not have her die in childbirth? Some of the commentary I've seen is people hoping for just that because they think in the books she is just a "receptacle for Paul's children" (eyeroll). However, I kind of get why DV made the changes he did. Book 2 wraps up very neatly and it seems like everything is peachy for all involved. DV wanted to leave people with a sense of tension and unresolved conflicts that will make them want part 3.

[The Good Doctor]

3 minutes ago, Celan said:

I thought I liked part one better, but I'm insomniac and ended up thinking about part two and plotting out where to see it on an even bigger IMAX screen.  

 

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Agree totally about Feyd. He was much better than I expected, not the joke he was in earlier versions. I thought it was smart to show that he was a "spare Paul" because that's what the BG set him up to be, rather than just as a final boss. All in all the BG were more overtly powerful and sinister in this movie than we see in the early books. I loved how DV made the Harkonnen society be weird because their sun is so harsh that they have no natural light, and I assume also they have to take a lot of chems for this reason (Stilgar talks about the chems in their blood). Again, makes them far cooler than just the "evil for lulz" culture. I think it's interesting that one of the Fremen homes that they were eventually chased out of was Geidi Prime. They learned from the harshness of that world, but their embrace of family and clan and ultimately the dream of a green paradise made them less bankrupt than the Harkonnens. 

Timothee did a good job. Since we talked about his stature, I was reminded that in the first book, Mohiam says that he's "small for his age." With even less of a time skip in the movie, his physicality seems right on for the part. I thought he also did a fine job of walking the line of reluctance to embrace his fate without just being a mopey kid about it.

I also liked the changes to Chani's character least. Especially on my first viewing, it didn't seem to me they had much chemistry and making her the "Uber Fremen" made it even less realistic that she would fall for him. OTOH, their being Fedaykin together were some of my favorite scenes in the movie, and she is depicted as being more like Paul than Stilgar is. She doesn't have Paul's prescience so her being unable to accept what seems to her baffling behavior is understandable. Probably the thing that bothered me most was that they made her, apparently, not be the daughter of Kynes. In fact, Liet is entirely forgotten in film 2. When Stilgar talks about the dream of paradise, he makes no mention of Liet's role in bringing that dream, and Chani explicitly rejects it, even saying that she hates her name "Sihaya." So what happens when the Fremen realize that their dream of paradise will actually kill the planet? Herbert specifically wrote that to be a criticism of an outworlder introducing ecological changes that have unintended negative consequences. Now it will have to be the Fremen dream dying. I guess... that could be okay? It's just the one thing that I'm least certain about.

Also I wonder if they will end up changing Chani's story going forward. Are they going to bow to feminist sensibilities and not have her die in childbirth? Some of the commentary I've seen is people hoping for just that because they think in the books she is just a "receptacle for Paul's children" (eyeroll). However, I kind of get why DV made the changes he did. Book 2 wraps up very neatly and it seems like everything is peachy for all involved. DV wanted to leave people with a sense of tension and unresolved conflicts that will make them want part 3.

 

I was so focused on the characters that I forgot to mention the Geidi Prime section. But yeah, that was one of my favorite parts of the movie, and just a really damn cool bunch of worldbuilding. Super artistic, but also full of good story beats and fun scenes to watch, in no small part thanks to Feyd chewing up every scene. It might sound weird that the movie halfway through switches to a lengthy uninterrupted episode of "Day in the Life of House Harkonnen" but it actually worked really well and honestly had me wanting more.

10 minutes ago, Celan said:

I think it's interesting that one of the Fremen homes that they were eventually chased out of was Geidi Prime.

I missed that detail, but that is very cool and suits them well. The Fremen are like the opposite of the Harkonnens in so many ways, which kinda makes the ending sad where Paul fully embraces his Harkonnen side and takes them with him.

13 minutes ago, Celan said:

their being Fedaykin together were some of my favorite scenes in the movie, and she is depicted as being more like Paul than Stilgar is. She doesn't have Paul's prescience so her being unable to accept what seems to her baffling behavior is understandable.

I think what bothered me most was that she was the only one who saw through everything. Did I miss a scene of Paul explaining to her that their religion had been hijacked by the Bene Gesserit? Because if not, I don’t see why she’d be this ultra skeptic when literally everyone else in her culture comes to believe. Hell, even Liet Kynes got swayed and (s)he wasn’t even born into their ways and works for the Emperor. I guess it works if Paul told her, but that begs the question of why he didn’t tell anyone else. 

18 minutes ago, Celan said:

So what happens when the Fremen realize that their dream of paradise will actually kill the planet? Herbert specifically wrote that to be a criticism of an outworlder introducing ecological changes that have unintended negative consequences.

I thought it wouldn’t kill the planet, but rather killed the sandworms and ended the creation of spice, which would mean the death of the Empire but also have major religious implications for the Fremen.

23 minutes ago, Celan said:

Also I wonder if they will end up changing Chani's story going forward. Are they going to bow to feminist sensibilities and not have her die in childbirth?

Doubt it. She’s going in a completely different direction at the end of this movie. She seems wholly against Paul at this point, and I could even see her never giving him children and instead being one of the "heroes" to Paul's "villain" in the next movie. Since Denis only wants to do three films rather than adapt the whole series, I wouldn’t even be that surprised if he goes an entirely new direction and she ends up killing Paul or something. That is one of his visions in the first movie. Chani stabbing him with the knife she gave him.

26 minutes ago, Celan said:

DV wanted to leave people with a sense of tension and unresolved conflicts that will make them want part 3.

The most surprising thing for me was the Great Houses showing up and rejecting Paul’s ascension. Things are a lot more urgent for him than they seemed in the book, as he’s gonna have to jump straight back into a defensive war before he can properly take the throne. 

Granted, their defiance does make his jihad feel somewhat more justified than in the books. Now they are the aggressors and he is being pushed to action, which can easily be seen escalating to full-blown exterminations. I kinda like that better than the Fremen just getting so frenzied by their victory that they decide to launch a genocide on everyone who they ever felt wronged by (so basically everyone).

[Celan]

3 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

 

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I was so focused on the characters that I forgot to mention the Geidi Prime section. But yeah, that was one of my favorite parts of the movie, and just a really damn cool bunch of worldbuilding. Super artistic, but also full of good story beats and fun scenes to watch, in no small part thanks to Feyd chewing up every scene. It might sound weird that the movie halfway through switches to a lengthy uninterrupted episode of "Day in the Life of House Harkonnen" but it actually worked really well and honestly had me wanting more.

I missed that detail, but that is very cool and suits them well. The Fremen are like the opposite of the Harkonnens in so many ways, which kinda makes the ending sad where Paul fully embraces his Harkonnen side and takes them with him.

I think what bothered me most was that she was the only one who saw through everything. Did I miss a scene of Paul explaining to her that their religion had been hijacked by the Bene Gesserit? Because if not, I don’t see why she’d be this ultra skeptic when literally everyone else in her culture comes to believe. Hell, even Liet Kynes got swayed and (s)he wasn’t even born into their ways and works for the Emperor. I guess it works if Paul told her, but that begs the question of why he didn’t tell anyone else. 

I thought it wouldn’t kill the planet, but rather killed the sandworms and ended the creation of spice, which would mean the death of the Empire but also have major religious implications for the Fremen.

Doubt it. She’s going in a completely different direction at the end of this movie. She seems wholly against Paul at this point, and I could even see her never giving him children and instead being one of the "heroes" to Paul's "villain" in the next movie. Since Denis only wants to do three films rather than adapt the whole series, I wouldn’t even be that surprised if he goes an entirely new direction and she ends up killing Paul or something. That is one of his visions in the first movie. Chani stabbing him with the knife she gave him.

The most surprising thing for me was the Great Houses showing up and rejecting Paul’s ascension. Things are a lot more urgent for him than they seemed in the book, as he’s gonna have to jump straight back into a defensive war before he can properly take the throne. 

Granted, their defiance does make his jihad feel somewhat more justified than in the books. Now they are the aggressors and he is being pushed to action, which can easily be seen escalating to full-blown exterminations. I kinda like that better than the Fremen just getting so frenzied by their victory that they decide to launch a genocide on everyone who they ever felt wronged by (so basically everyone).

I do think DV felt that he had to end with more urgency as well as give more plausibility to a frenzied jihad than if it had ended with everything seemingly under control.

I hope DV doesn't go in a radically different direction with Chani. She could come back if she discovers that she's already pregnant. I think the vision Paul had of Chani handing him a knife was a possible future, but he averted that by taking her knife to kill Jamis with. "Taking another life is like taking your own, Paul Atreides must die so the KH lives," etc. It worries me, but he's been pretty faithful thus far and even made changes I like, so I'll trust him a little further.

They made other people be skeptical, like her friend who ends up getting killed in the north, and even the southerners are ready to kill him when he challenges them, but he wins them over again. I think we get antsy about this story line because we're so used to having angry girlbosses shoved in our faces. All I can say is I hope they rein it back in.

By "kill the planet" I mean kill their economy and culture. Arrakis without spice isn't going to be a tourist destination.

Two of my favorite moments were when Gurney finds Paul, and when he says that "Dune" is the planet's Fremen name. Very cool.

[Celan]

I read that it took Stellan Skarsgard 7 HOURS to get into his makeup.

Walton Goggins did an interview about the Fallout series and said that on the first day of shooting, he put on his costume pants and there was a brown recluse in there that bit him 5 times before he could get them off. 

There ought to be an Oscar for worst costuming stories.

More about the Harkonnens...

 

I didn't mind that Rabban was shown to be an ineffectual fool. It's in keeping with his character and the book's plot that the Baron was setting him up to fail. It showed that he was a bully who relied on terror. I also didn't mind that Gurney killed him instead of a Fremen mob, though I'm puzzled that they didn't explain why Gurney hated him so much. DV avoids exposition almost fanatically. I guess it's meant to be an "if you know, you know" thing.

I was a little puzzled by the complete absence of the Spacing Guild, but I assume DV wanted to bring the Bene Gesserit to the forefront and the Guild will become important in the conspiracy against the Atreides Empire.

[The Good Doctor]

5 hours ago, Celan said:

 

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I hope DV doesn't go in a radically different direction with Chani. She could come back if she discovers that she's already pregnant. I think the vision Paul had of Chani handing him a knife was a possible future, but he averted that by taking her knife to kill Jamis with. "Taking another life is like taking your own, Paul Atreides must die so the KH lives," etc. It worries me, but he's been pretty faithful thus far and even made changes I like, so I'll trust him a little further.

 

 

Her being pregnant would explain a lot, since Paul foresaw that she would return to his side despite seemingly being completely against what he’s doing. With the way she’s been characterized in the film, that feels like one of the few ways she could actually change so dramatically.

We’ve seen that some of Paul’s dream visions can confuse details and mix up individuals and contexts, like how he saw Chani get burned by the nukes, or Jamis as his friend. So it could be that he saw Chani killing him under one context, but she will end up doing it under another. If I recall correctly, the vision showed her bring him in for a kiss and then stab him in the heart.

5 hours ago, Celan said:

By "kill the planet" I mean kill their economy and culture. Arrakis without spice isn't going to be a tourist destination.

To be fair, the spice economy is mostly exploited by offworlders to their detriment. I don’t think that this is a change that the Fremen would be opposed to, given their dreams of paradise. Everything will change for them, but that’s long been the dream.

Speaking of, Paul’s final line in the movie was chilling. When he learned of the Houses’ defiance and just calmly ordered Stilgar to "Send them to Paradise." Did a pretty good job of conveying what direction he intends to take things in now. Like he’s fully consigned himself to the jihad.

Gurney finding Paul was indeed a great moment. I would also throw in the look they share when Paul puts on his father’s signet ring in front of all the Fremen chiefs.

4 hours ago, Celan said:

I didn't mind that Rabban was shown to be an ineffectual fool. It's in keeping with his character and the book's plot that the Baron was setting him up to fail. It showed that he was a bully who relied on terror. I also didn't mind that Gurney killed him instead of a Fremen mob, though I'm puzzled that they didn't explain why Gurney hated him so much.

I’m okay with Rabban being a fool, but I do think I’d have preferred him to have been a better warrior to make up for his lack of cunning. He seemed pretty confident in facing Gurney, which is weird considering how inept he turned out to be, and supposedly he landed a blow on him in the fighting pits which I now find somewhat hard to believe. You’d also think he’d have had access to the same caliber of mentors as Feyd.

I agree that it would’ve been better to learn about Gurney’s sister for that personal touch to their rivalry. I felt it was implied that Rabban did something horrible to him considering his rage (kind of excessive if all he did was give him a scar), but yeah, the movie didn’t really go into much detail on the matter.

4 hours ago, Celan said:

I was a little puzzled by the complete absence of the Spacing Guild, but I assume DV wanted to bring the Bene Gesserit to the forefront and the Guild will become important in the conspiracy against the Atreides Empire.

Me too. They’re a big part of the climax in the book. I think the ending confrontation was good, but it suffered a little from DV’s dislike of dialogue, since that part in the book was a lot more of Paul going back-and-forth with the Emperor and his partners to make them understand just how trapped they really were.

But I really liked how the Bene Gesserit were handled in this one, so I’m not complaining about them being brought to the forefront.

[The Good Doctor]

@ColonelKillaBee @TheCzarsHussar Y’all should watch the new Dune before it leaves theaters. It’s definitely a film that benefits a lot from the big screen.

[The Good Doctor]

@Celan Another detail I liked about Feyd-Rautha.

When the Benne Gesserit make him put his hand in the box, it cuts away and the witch later mentions that he enjoys pain. It’s easy to imagine she learned this because he would’ve grinned his way through the trial.

[Celan]

4 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

@ColonelKillaBee @TheCzarsHussar Y’all should watch the new Dune before it leaves theaters. It’s definitely a film that benefits a lot from the big screen.

Ghostbusters is probably going to take over some IMAX screens in a couple weeks. It is definitely worth seeing it on a Dolby or IMAX.

Then again, both times I went, the theater was absolutely packed. So it's likely to stick around for a while in regular theaters.

7 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

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Her being pregnant would explain a lot, since Paul foresaw that she would return to his side despite seemingly being completely against what he’s doing. With the way she’s been characterized in the film, that feels like one of the few ways she could actually change so dramatically.

We’ve seen that some of Paul’s dream visions can confuse details and mix up individuals and contexts, like how he saw Chani get burned by the nukes, or Jamis as his friend. So it could be that he saw Chani killing him under one context, but she will end up doing it under another. If I recall correctly, the vision showed her bring him in for a kiss and then stab him in the heart.

To be fair, the spice economy is mostly exploited by offworlders to their detriment. I don’t think that this is a change that the Fremen would be opposed to, given their dreams of paradise. Everything will change for them, but that’s long been the dream.

Speaking of, Paul’s final line in the movie was chilling. When he learned of the Houses’ defiance and just calmly ordered Stilgar to "Send them to Paradise." Did a pretty good job of conveying what direction he intends to take things in now. Like he’s fully consigned himself to the jihad.

Gurney finding Paul was indeed a great moment. I would also throw in the look they share when Paul puts on his father’s signet ring in front of all the Fremen chiefs.

I’m okay with Rabban being a fool, but I do think I’d have preferred him to have been a better warrior to make up for his lack of cunning. He seemed pretty confident in facing Gurney, which is weird considering how inept he turned out to be, and supposedly he landed a blow on him in the fighting pits which I now find somewhat hard to believe. You’d also think he’d have had access to the same caliber of mentors as Feyd.

I agree that it would’ve been better to learn about Gurney’s sister for that personal touch to their rivalry. I felt it was implied that Rabban did something horrible to him considering his rage (kind of excessive if all he did was give him a scar), but yeah, the movie didn’t really go into much detail on the matter.

Me too. They’re a big part of the climax in the book. I think the ending confrontation was good, but it suffered a little from DV’s dislike of dialogue, since that part in the book was a lot more of Paul going back-and-forth with the Emperor and his partners to make them understand just how trapped they really were.

But I really liked how the Bene Gesserit were handled in this one, so I’m not complaining about them being brought to the forefront.

 

I think seeing Chani get burned was impetus for him to take the Water of Life. There had to be something to move him to do it. I really hope that DV doesn't go that far out on a limb just because he doesn't want to film the rest of the books. Which I don't blame him since I stopped reading after Messiah, when it got really weird.

We saw that the Harkonnens drug prisoners, so Rabban landing a blow on Gurney in the pits wouldn't be surprising.

The deep desert Fremen mostly eat spice, so they would be fucked without worms, and so would the city Fremen without any trade.

One of the criticisms I've seen is that people didn't think Feyd should have been able to nearly kill Paul, but since Paul sees a vision of using the emperor's knife to kill Feyd, it seems he was planning that he had to get stabbed first. That also mirrors the move that Gurney did on him when they were training in the first movie. I really liked all of that. 

So far there is nothing where fridge logic has made me disgusted at the writing. All the changes, I can at least see the reason for and they don't feel cheap. This is how you adapt a beloved book series. Both original fans and new fans are satisfied.

[The Good Doctor]

16 minutes ago, Celan said:

Ghostbusters is probably going to take over some IMAX screens in a couple weeks. It is definitely worth seeing it on a Dolby or IMAX.

Then again, both times I went, the theater was absolutely packed. So it's likely to stick around for a while in regular theaters.

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We saw that the Harkonnens drug prisoners, so Rabban landing a blow on Gurney in the pits wouldn't be surprising.

The deep desert Fremen mostly eat spice, so they would be fucked without worms, and so would the city Fremen without any trade.

One of the criticisms I've seen is that people didn't think Feyd should have been able to nearly kill Paul, but since Paul sees a vision of using the emperor's knife to kill Feyd, it seems he was planning that he had to get stabbed first. That also mirrors the move that Gurney did on him when they were training in the first movie. I really liked all of that. 

So far there is nothing where fridge logic has made me disgusted at the writing. All the changes, I can at least see the reason for and they don't feel cheap. This is how you adapt a beloved book series. Both original fans and new fans are satisfied.

Great point about the Harkonnens debugging the gladiators. Didn’t consider that being why he’d score a blow on Gurney, but it makes so much sense I feel halfway stupid for not realizing it.  

The deep desert Fremen would be fucked without worms right now, but their dream is for the distant future where Arrakis has been terraformed into a lush and bountiful paradise. I doubt they would still need spice to survive as the planet would provide for them in other ways like Earth does for us. And more pragmatically, once Paul has cemented his place as the Emperor of the known universe, he could easily arrange for basically infinite resources to be funneled to Arrakis from off-world.

On the Paul x Feyd duel thing, I don’t get that criticism. Why shouldn’t a well-trained, selectively-bred prodigy who fights in gladiator matches for fun be a tough match for Paul? Seeing possible futures shows Paul how to win, but it doesn’t give him the skills to guarantee he’ll pull it off. And good catch on him winning with the same move he landed on Gurney, taking the knife (twice!) to get the win. Cool detail.

44 minutes ago, Celan said:

So far there is nothing where fridge logic has made me disgusted at the writing. All the changes, I can at least see the reason for and they don't feel cheap. This is how you adapt a beloved book series. Both original fans and new fans are satisfied.

I agree. Even the stuff I don’t like (Baron Harkonnen feeling dumber, the various plots and schemes being reduced, fewer factions at play) is not the kind of stuff that seems to have been done with bad intentions.

Chani, Alia, and the ending are the only changes I can think of that seem to be a very deliberate attempts to go against what’s in the book, but even those don’t feel spiteful towards it. Especially the ending, which really just seems an attempt to make the movies feel like a coherent trilogy instead of wrapping things up with a neat bow only to unpack it again later like the books did.

[Celan]

19 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

 

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Great point about the Harkonnens debugging the gladiators. Didn’t consider that being why he’d score a blow on Gurney, but it makes so much sense I feel halfway stupid for not realizing it.  

The deep desert Fremen would be fucked without worms right now, but their dream is for the distant future where Arrakis has been terraformed into a lush and bountiful paradise. I doubt they would still need spice to survive as the planet would provide for them in other ways like Earth does for us. And more pragmatically, once Paul has cemented his place as the Emperor of the known universe, he could easily arrange for basically infinite resources to be funneled to Arrakis from off-world.

On the Paul x Feyd duel thing, I don’t get that criticism. Why shouldn’t a well-trained, selectively-bred prodigy who fights in gladiator matches for fun be a tough match for Paul? Seeing possible futures shows Paul how to win, but it doesn’t give him the skills to guarantee he’ll pull it off. And good catch on him winning with the same move he landed on Gurney, taking the knife (twice!) to get the win. Cool detail.

I agree. Even the stuff I don’t like (Baron Harkonnen feeling dumber, the various plots and schemes being reduced, fewer factions at play) is not the kind of stuff that seems to have been done with bad intentions.

Chani, Alia, and the ending are the only changes I can think of that seem to be a very deliberate attempts to go against what’s in the book, but even those don’t feel spiteful towards it. Especially the ending, which really just seems an attempt to make the movies feel like a coherent trilogy instead of wrapping things up with a neat bow only to unpack it again later like the books did.

Melange is addictive, so a lot of people are going to be hurting for a while, but maybe they would figure out a way around that.

Reading the books, I always thought spice coffee sounded good, but not in the films where they make it with everyone's communal spit.  

What did you think about Jessica's arc? I thought it was really cool how they showed Alia almost controlling her, and her immediately turning cold and mechanistic, although you get glimpses of the old Jessica coming through. But oh boy, Alia is well set up to be an "abomination."

[ColonelKillaBee]

I didn’t even know the second part of new dune was out x3

if it’s in theaters here I’ll go

[ColonelKillaBee]

On 3/7/2024 at 5:47 PM, The Good Doctor said:

I’ve given up on trying to get Colonel to watch/play good things.  

Speaking of, we gotta have another talk about fallout 76….

[The Good Doctor]

46 minutes ago, Celan said:

 

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Melange is addictive, so a lot of people are going to be hurting for a while, but maybe they would figure out a way around that.

Reading the books, I always thought spice coffee sounded good, but not in the films where they make it with everyone's communal spit.  

What did you think about Jessica's arc? I thought it was really cool how they showed Alia almost controlling her, and her immediately turning cold and mechanistic, although you get glimpses of the old Jessica coming through. But oh boy, Alia is well set up to be an "abomination."

 

 

The Fremen’s hopes are for future generations more-so than themselves. They’re already happy to die and give their water for the dream, so I think they’d be okay with the loss of spice even if it hurts them. But then, without offworlders actively taking it from them and distributing it across the universe, the stockpiles of spice currently on Arrakis would probably last the Fremen centuries.

52 minutes ago, Celan said:

Reading the books, I always thought spice coffee sounded good, but not in the films where they make it with everyone's communal spit.  

Yeah… How Fremen survive is such a unique blend of badass and incredibly disgusting.  I like how disturbing the movie made the water harvesters where you can hear the corpses’ blood and innards slurping into the machine and converting to clear water.

Jessica’s arc was mostly fulfilled in the first act. Not a complaint, I liked her character a lot, but she didn’t really go through many changes after becoming a Reverend Mother and drinking the goop. I didn’t think it was Alia controlling her, but the past Reverend Mothers, but maybe I’m wrong. I really enjoyed their dynamic, though. It was creepy and funny.  

[The Good Doctor]

11 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Speaking of, we gotta have another talk about fallout 76….

What? You didn’t actually subject yourself to that crap did you?? 

[BigBossBalrog]

12 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Speaking of, we gotta have another talk about fallout 76….

Colonel stop it your tearing us apart!

[The Good Doctor]

@Celan What did you think of Emperor Walken?  

[The Good Doctor]

1 hour ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

I didn’t even know the second part of new dune was out x3

if it’s in theaters here I’ll go

You need to! It’s really good. Better than the first, in my opinion, and I liked the first quite a bit. My opinion has really come around on Paul in this movie.

[Celan]

44 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

@Celan What did you think of Emperor Walken?  

He's not right for the role, but I understand they wanted his presence as a legendary actor.

[The Good Doctor]

1 minute ago, Celan said:

He's not right for the role, but I understand they wanted his presence as a legendary actor.

I don’t even really have a problem with him in the role, but I do wish he’d been given more material to work with. 

Although I have a feeling if I were to go back and read a description of Shadam, it wouldn’t look anything similar. I had a much more imposing "Tywin-Esq" image of him in my mind while reading the final chapter of the book.