Roleplayer’s Off Topic Thread #2

[BTC]

3 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

But tied in with what we discussed today I do like the idea of his being against Lorkhan's groupies because it kills his chance to be anything but a bottomfeeder.

But again, not enough supporting evidence. 

Well, that and I’m not sure he is a bottom feeder, just much less active. There’s a cut line about him from Daggerfall I think sums him up that says he’s “the most affable of the Daedric Princes with the worst reputation.” I think he’s only viewed as a bottom feeder by others but isn’t one, because part of his realm involves ordering some of the realms of Oblivion. And a guy from ESO mention Peryite is in charge of keeping daedrons in check and says he “tried to keep ahead of all of it” which keeps him busy. So I think he’s just less active with humans and so that gives him a bad rap. 

Though I'm curious to hear more about Mora being the head of this kalpa. How is that determined and what causes it to change?

[The Good Doctor]

4 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

which Hermaeus Mora now is, so they think he may have followed behind him.

I think Mora is something else entirely. According to the Imperial Census of Daedric Princes, he is one of the oldest Princes in their current forms- about the same age as the concept of mortality. And since mortality was absolutely key in Lorkhan/Magnus’ plans, he probably started taking form not long after taking a form was possible.

He is also supposedly tied to Akatosh. Definitely on the other side of the table from the likes of Boethiah or Dagon. So maybe there is credence to him being similar to Molag. 

[The Good Doctor]

7 minutes ago, BTCollins said:

So I think he’s just less active with humans and so that gives him a bad rap. 

Yeah, I believe he was stated to be more removed from mortals than most other Princes. The idea of him being weaker or lesser probably comes from the Empire, not necessarily a correct source.

If you’re a mortal and you’re trying to rank Princes, the one who never seems to do anything and is associated with weak-ass sickness and shit isn’t gonna rank as high as something like the “Lord of Destruction” even though Mehrunes is honestly one of the least impressive Princes when we start measuring feats. He gets bested by mortals like every weekend.  At least when that happens to Clavicus or Hircine, it’s because they intentionally make it possible. 

[ColonelKillaBee]

Mora is but the cycle is known to repeat itself. Mora probably is always present in each kalpa in one form or another. As for Peryite, I mean bottom feeder in that Kyne is known for handing him the souls of rats, and while yes he keeps the Daedric denizens in order, that can be seen as the lesser task of a lackey.

 

Hes basically their maintenance guy. Aka a janitor lol

[BTC]

2 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Hes basically their maintenance guy. Aka a janitor lol

This is probably true, but if you've ever seen pictures of cities whose sanitation workers have gone on strike, then you know how important a job like that is. Humans, as Doc said, probably don't view him as very important or powerful, but I imagine the Princes themselves would hold a different opinion about Peryite. 

Also, what's the deal with Ebonarm? I noticed earlier he's not present in any game outside of Daggerfall and a section of a book about him was cut from ESO. Why'd they basically remove him from the lore?

[The Good Doctor]

Just now, ColonelKillaBee said:

Mora is but the cycle is known to repeat itself. Mora probably is always present in each kalpa in one form or another. As for Peryite, I mean bottom feeder in that Kyne is known for handing him the souls of rats, and while yes he keeps the Daedric denizens in order, that can be seen as the lesser task of a lackey.

Creation and mortality are older than the cycle. So if Mora came about in his current form near the beginning, then that means he has endured the kalpas more or less unchanged. I think there isn’t much evidence that supports all of Oblivion being subject to the kalpas. 

Most sources point to the daedra just being et’ada who didn’t participate in creation, which obviously can’t be the full truth if we believe the creation myths of Meridia, Molag, Malacath, and Mehrunes (all M’s I’ve just noticed. ) but in their cases, they were basically turned into daedra during previous kalpas, which to me would have to entail some form of banishment into Oblivion. Once there, who’s to say that the cycle affects them any longer. I’m not convinced that it does.

[ColonelKillaBee]

I’m sure it’s a mixed bag, some respect him and others might hold their nose.

Ebonarm being post Daggerfall according to Lady Nerevar was a different team so Beth now leaves the lore mostly untouched.

We do have the Ebony Warrior though.

[The Good Doctor]

2 minutes ago, BTCollins said:

Also, what's the deal with Ebonarm? I noticed earlier he's not present in any game outside of Daggerfall and a section of a book about him was cut from ESO. Why'd they basically remove him from the lore?

No idea. The daedra sure fucking hate him, though.  Lots of people believe that an aspect of him appeared as the Ebony Warrior.

It’s likely that Bethesda let him fall aside when Talos basically functionally took his place as a god of war, but in a much more prominent role.

[ColonelKillaBee]

2 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Creation and mortality are older than the cycle. So if Mora came about in his current form near the beginning, then that means he has endured the kalpas more or less unchanged. I think there isn’t much evidence that supports all of Oblivion being subject to the kalpas. 

Most sources point to the daedra just being et’ada who didn’t participate in creation, which obviously can’t be the full truth if we believe the creation myths of Meridia, Molag, Malacath, and Mehrunes (all M’s I’ve just noticed. ) but in their cases, they were basically turned into daedra during previous kalpas, which to me would have to entail some form of banishment into Oblivion. Once there, who’s to say that the cycle affects them any longer. I’m not convinced that it does.

“Even the daedra fear me!” Alduin. 

I think it does personally, but certain events repeat themselves.

Of course Mora being the Daedric lord of forbidden knowledge not only could know where to hide to avoid being changed, he may even be one of the things Mehrunes helped the old man hide from Alduin to be preserved in the next kalpa.

[The Good Doctor]

7 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Ebonarm being post Daggerfall according to Lady Nerevar was a different team so Beth now leaves the lore mostly untouched.

Somewhat different. A lot of them have been there from the start, but that was pre MK and pre Kuhlmann, who alone are enough to make a big difference. 

[The Good Doctor]

1 minute ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

“Even the daedra fear me!” Alduin. 

I think it does personally, but certain events repeat themselves.

Of course Mora being the Daedric lord of forbidden knowledge not only could know where to hide to avoid being changed, he may even be one of the things Mehrunes helped the old man hide from Alduin to be preserved in the next kalpa.

Just so I understand you right, this means that you believe that stuff like “Trinimac” (or whatever that spirit is called in a given kalpa) getting corrupted by “Boethiah” always happens in some form?

[ColonelKillaBee]

3 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Just so I understand you right, this means that you believe that stuff like “Trinimac” (or whatever that spirit is called in a given kalpa) getting corrupted by “Boethiah” always happens in some form?

Not necessarily Boethiah and Trinimac. In fact some Kalpas may skip them entirely, but yea I think if the gods repeat the king rebel observer interplay then other things can be repeated too. For instance it’s stated Alduin always eats the Nords first.

[The Good Doctor]

Gotcha. Though I agree on the cycle repeating important events, I don’t personally believe that Oblivion is related to this. I think that if Alduin consumes creation, then Oblivion would survive that that because by definition it exists outside of creation. They are not of the world that he eats.

That isn’t to say daedra have no reason to fear him. He’s an aspect of the Time God, and even daedra respect time despite existing outside it (Sheogorath gives a speech about this in Shivering Isles. Time is a force of order and is almost his undoing).

Perhaps Alduin has the capability to eat them but doesn’t, or perhaps they understand the significance of how high up he is in terms of creation gradients. Despite being of Oblivion, daedra do require and even enforce order among themselves. That alone is reason enough for them to bow to a figure like Alduin. 

[ColonelKillaBee]

If Daedra are untouched then Sheogorath is new, as is any Daedra that gained their spheres by observing what Lorkhan did. There’d be potentially limitless Daedric lords because of this or Daedric spirits anyway, making a surplus of spirits and storing a surplus of souls in oblivion, a plane that exists between here and Aetherius.

[The Good Doctor]

There’s also the fact that lots of mortal souls reside in Oblivion. Maybe Alduin comes for those too every time he starts eating everything. That would mean that once per kalpa he robs all the Princes of everything they’ve worked to obtain. Because if he doesn’t do this, the world would have fewer spirits every time.

Then if the daedra resist, Alduin metaphysically breaks their noses or goes ahead and eats/shits them into something new on the spot.  Good reason to be afraid of the guy.

[ColonelKillaBee]

I mean, if he’s going up there to eat their toy mortal souls there’s no reason he can’t reset them too  it’s an mk text that states they’re part of the cycle musical chairs that reassigns the positions of power each kalpa.

[BTC]

Thanks to my brother alerting me to the sale, I was able to pick up Black Flag for $16. I don’t know when I’ll get around to playing it but I’m glad I was finally able to pick it up

[The Good Doctor]

20 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

If Daedra are untouched then Sheogorath is new, as is any Daedra that gained their spheres by observing what Lorkhan did. There’d be potentially limitless Daedric lords because of this or Daedric spirits anyway, making a surplus of spirits and storing a surplus of souls in oblivion, a plane that exists between here and Aetherius.

There are potentially limitless Daedric lords if Oblivion is infinite. The sixteen we know of are uniquely interested in Mundus (probably because of past ties to it or their observation of creation), but there are over 37,000 planes of Oblivion that have been determined to exist by mortals, most probably so bizarre and distant that they can’t even be understood or comprehended. And that’s just what people have confirmed to exist, kinda like the observable universe being nothing compared to the entire universe IRL.

15 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

I mean, if he’s going up there to eat their toy mortal souls there’s no reason he can’t reset them too  it’s an mk text that states they’re part of the cycle musical chairs that reassigns the positions of power each kalpa.

Alduin can get full. It sounds dumb, but if his purpose is to actually consume creation, then eating all of Oblivion too may genuinely be outside his capabilities. And I did say that he may potentially be able to reset them too, but that doesn’t mean he does or always does. It would explain both why ones like Mora and Nocturnal (and Namira?) have been around from the get-go as well as why ones like Mehrunes Dagon and Molag Bal exist as they do now.

[ColonelKillaBee]

I think there’s potentially limitless “Daedra” but not Daedric Lord’s, not when they are supposedly part of the rebalancing of power in the mythic.

So if we take your idea, then instead of trying to consume all of Oblivion, he wouldn’t need to if he sticks to those at the head.

[The Good Doctor]

3 minutes ago, BTCollins said:

Thanks to my brother alerting me to the sale, I was able to pick up Black Flag for $16. I don’t know when I’ll get around to playing it but I’m glad I was finally able to pick it up

Enjoy! Black Flag is either my favorite or second favorite after Origins. The story is definitely better, but the land gameplay isn’t on the same level.

The seafaring gameplay on the other hand is soooo much fun. Sailing around with the crew singing shanties and blowing up Spanish frigates never got old. 

[Centurion]

[The Good Doctor]

2 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

I think there’s potentially limitless “Daedra” but not Daedric Lord’s, not when they are supposedly part of the rebalancing of power in the mythic.

So if we take your idea, then instead of trying to consume all of Oblivion, he wouldn’t need to if he sticks to those at the head.

That depends on the correct definition of Daedric Lord. I’m not convinced that all of them are part of rebalancing power in the mythic, even if some are.

And even if that is the case, and even if Alduin could just eat all the heads, that doesn’t mean that he needs to or that he always does. You even said that Mora might be an example of one who slips through the cracks. And if Nocturnal is the eldest of the daedra, then she presumably does as well.

[The Good Doctor]

1 minute ago, Centurion said:

 I don’t care where you stand on the gun debate. This is hilarious. 

[ColonelKillaBee]

1 minute ago, The Good Doctor said:

That depends on the correct definition of Daedric Lord. I’m not convinced that all of them are part of rebalancing power in the mythic, even if some are.

And even if that is the case, and even if Alduin could just eat all the heads, that doesn’t mean that he needs to or that he always does. You even said that Mora might be an example of one who slips through the cracks. And if Nocturnal is the eldest of the daedra, then she presumably does as well.

My stance was never that he had to, just that it was part of the cycle  even if not wholely I don’t think Oblivion remains untouched.

[The Good Doctor]

Just now, ColonelKillaBee said:

My stance was never that he had to, just that it was part of the cycle  even if not wholely I don’t think Oblivion remains untouched.

Fair enough. And I’m gonna have to go back a bit on what I said because I do think Oblivion can be touched, just that it’s not necessarily part of the cycle. By that I mean I don’t believe that Alduin eats the Lords, though I’m not ruling out the possibility that he could or has. Or that I’m wrong about everything I’m saying.