Civil War Aftermath OOC #3

[Witchking of Angmar]

Not really. Finding out about the ship leaving Anvil wouldn't be too hard. From there you'd have to try to follow what happened. It would take time and effort but I don't think it would be impossible to find out what happened to a ship that passed numerous port cities, especially when the ship most likely didn't have supplies for the entire journey. And once you arrive in Kyne's Watch you'd only need to ask around the docks about someone in Oculatus armor. Though finding the way to Kyne's Watch would be hard and require lots of patience, and I'm sure most people would give up before then. 

[ColonelKillaBee]

Finding out about a ship leaving anvil, one of many many ships, when everyone thinks it blew up sounds pretty impossible to me.

[The Good Doctor]

3 hours ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

It would take time and effort but I don't think it would be impossible to find out what happened to a ship that passed numerous port cities, especially when the ship most likely didn't have supplies for the entire journey.

It was mentioned in my last post before this one that while nice, Nekla’s Diamond was a pretty mundane looking merchant vessel that wouldn’t turn any heads in Hammerfell. And they bought enough supplies in Stros M’kai, where dozens of new ships were arriving every day. And Thorald made them anchor far from the docks.

3 hours ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

And once you arrive in Kyne's Watch you'd only need to ask around the docks about someone in Oculatus armor.

Trevis was rushed in for a reason. He also wouldn’t have been in his armor. It’s one of the coldest ports in the world. He’s bundled up.

Though I’m honestly not sure how anyone would trace them any farther than Anvil. The story seems pretty clear cut from an investigator’s perspective. An Inspector and his men are chasing a notoriously dangerous criminal. They set sail to capture him at sea. None of them are seen again. 

Can’t imagine how that would lead anyone to another clue instead of just having them assume that the guy who already burned down a city most likely killed them all at sea. The biggest threat was the crew, since there’s no way in hell they would’ve have told stories about their wild experience upon returning home. 

[The Good Doctor]

7 hours ago, BTCollins said:

Though I’m just speculating since I can’t remember having killed off anyone else’s characters in the roleplay. Not major ones, anyway. The closest would be Gracchus and Rebec’s ship, but that happened off screen and so feels a bit removed

Same here. I’ve killed off a bunch of my own characters, but never someone else’s. It’s hard for me to see a circumstance where one of mine would even have the opportunity, to be honest. 

7 hours ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Cant say it was very satisfying.

Bullsh-

7 hours ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Ok it was satisfying  

That’s better.  You were hyped as hell for this.

[Witchking of Angmar]

Major ports would however have docking registries. Add to that the expected speed, date of departure and intended destination you could with some luck tie the resupply to the ship and with it calculate which ports it could reach on those supplies. It’s not impossible. I’ve heard police stories where they caught criminals with more longshot clues than this. Though as I said: I don’t think anyone would be that determined to find Trevis or Boldir. 

[The Good Doctor]

57 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

I’ve heard police stories where they caught criminals with more longshot clues than this.

Yeah, in modern times with tons of technology, facial recognition, and much better record keeping. And if Nekla’s Diamond has enough time and supplies to reach Kyne’s Watch, there aren’t very many friendly ports in the world that it couldn’t have reached.

Plus it never would’ve been recorded as having arrived at Kyne’s Watch, so even if someone somehow found out that it arrived in Stros M’kai, that would be as far as the trail leads. And even then, there was no evidence to assume that the Grim Ones or Trevis had ever been on the ship. If someone, for some reason, really wanted to figure this out and somehow discovered that Nekla’s Diamond had been to Stros M’kai, it would look like Boldir killed Trevis and co. at sea, resupplied at Stros M’kai, and then disappeared along with the ship. An investigator could check every port in the world one-by-one and would have no luck unless he literally just got lucky and bumped into Boldir and happened to know exactly what he looks like. And even then, that wouldn’t implicate Baldur in Trevis’ killing. It would just confirm that Boldir survived and raise the question of what happened to the ship and its crew.

[ColonelKillaBee]

Why is this such a long debate lol it’s not like Baldur pulling slick moves is unheard of  

 

[TheCzarsHussar]

2 hours ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Why is this such a long debate lol it’s not like Baldur pulling slick moves is unheard of  

 

 

[Witchking of Angmar]

2 hours ago, The Good Doctor said:

Yeah, in modern times with tons of technology, facial recognition, and much better record keeping.

Actually some these stories didn't use that much technology. And the things that made it work were clever assumptions than any high tech finding things for you. 

Also you forget the Grim Ones that were sent to hunt Boldir. If it was known that they had returned then it would be assumed that they caught up with Boldir and that they either killed him or managed to bring him back. And Greymane isn't exactly among one of the more unknown Grim Ones. Then there's Eilif's crew that you can't really trust to not slip up indefinitely. 

All I'm saying it isn't the perfect crime that is claimed and that some variables comes down to chance. I agree that Baldur is most certainly going to get away with it, but not with absolute certainty. Now I'll let it lie unless someone does decide to argue that it is the perfect crime. 

[The Good Doctor]

14 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

Actually some these stories didn't use that much technology. And the things that made it work were clever assumptions than any high tech finding things for you. 

Stories like these are more exceptions than the rule of how it usually goes down. Before fairly recent technology, crime was ridiculously easy to get away with by modern standards. There are countless serious criminals who only get caught today because we have cameras, DNA tests, and the ability to find out who anyone is and what they look like with complete accuracy.

14 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

Also you forget the Grim Ones that were sent to hunt Boldir. If it was known that they had returned then it would be assumed that they caught up with Boldir and that they either killed him or managed to bring him back.

If. It isn’t known that they returned, and finding out would require traveling to the correct town on the opposite end of the continent from where Trevis was last seen.

And the only Imperial who was even particularly familiar with them was Trevis himself, next in line being the guys immediately under him who died at sea. But even they weren’t close, like using first names and whatnot. Not to mention that most of the Grim Ones died too.

14 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

Then there's Eilif's crew that you can't really trust to not slip up indefinitely. 

For all we know, Eilif’s crew don’t even know why they were told to do what they did. But again, it’s a massive if that they would betray Baldur’s secrets for the Empire’s sake after showing pretty clear loyalty.

14 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

All I'm saying it isn't the perfect crime that is claimed and that some variables comes down to chance

There’s no such thing as a perfect crime and literally everything has some variables that come down to chance. In this case, those chances were minimized about as effectively as possible. It only fails if some extremely unlikely events occur.

[Witchking of Angmar]

4 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

If. It isn’t known that they returned, and finding out would require traveling to the correct town on the opposite end of the continent from where Trevis was last seen.

And the only Imperial who was even particularly familiar with them was Trevis himself, next in line being the guys immediately under him who died at sea. But even they weren’t close, like using first names and whatnot. Not to mention that most of the Grim Ones died too.

I don't know exactly what Trevis wrote down in any reports or the like. He might have written down their names, he might not and who they were would have gone to the grave with him. Not to mention Greymane's return wasn't really kept secret. So if one makes the assumption that Trevis failed and died in the attempt but the Grim Ones succeeded, they would have gone to Kyne's Watch. And from there with clever thinking one could at least piece together some parts of the puzzle. 

8 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

For all we know, Eilif’s crew don’t even know why they were told to do what they did. But again, it’s a massive if that they would betray Baldur’s secrets for the Empire’s sake after showing pretty clear loyalty.

I didn't say anything about loyalty. I said slip up. People drink and say stuff. People tend to answer innocent looking questions without thinking much on it. 

[The Good Doctor]

1 minute ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

I don't know exactly what Trevis wrote down in any reports or the like. He might have written down their names, he might not and who they were would have gone to the grave with him. Not to mention Greymane's return wasn't really kept secret. So if one makes the assumption that Trevis failed and died in the attempt but the Grim Ones succeeded, they would have gone to Kyne's Watch. And from there with clever thinking one could at least piece together some parts of the puzzle. 

He might’ve mentioned Gray-Mane but that’s about it. But if someone in Cyrodiil knew where to find Gray-Mane in Skyrim, and traveled across the entire continent to find him, he would just lie and say Trevis died at sea, along with a bunch of his own men. There is no reason for “clever thinking” to lead someone to doubt this.

5 minutes ago, Witchking of Angmar said:

I didn't say anything about loyalty. I said slip up. People drink and say stuff. People tend to answer innocent looking questions without thinking much on it. 

Again, this is a big stretch. Who are Oarsinger and his crew drinking with that’s gonna rat on them or even give a damn? How would an investigator come to find them and why would they even try? Even drunk, why would they blab about something they knew was a secret instead of, say, the thousand other things they have to brag about?

It would be an incredibly long shot for someone to reach this point to begin with, and an almost equally long shot that they would actually get something from it. I think all this just looks easier to you looking in because you’ve read the story and have the full context. Anyone else would have to jump through some serious hoops, go through extreme effort, and also get very lucky. 

[Witchking of Angmar]

13 minutes ago, The Good Doctor said:

Anyone else would have to jump through some serious hoops, go through extreme effort, and also get very lucky. 

Apart from the luck part, that's what I've been saying. It could be done, but it would be so hard that very few would be able to do it. 

[Celan]

I'm sure if there's a good story reason to pursue it, there could be some way of people finding out what happened. Since there's not and we already know the alliance with Cyrodiil is one of convenience anyway (so what would Dales do even if she found out?) there's not much point in discussing it.

RIP Trevis

[ColonelKillaBee]

I agree that there’s no reason to discuss it but unless someone spills the beans, imo someone finding out would seem like an ass pull.

[ColonelKillaBee]

I mean, in a world where there’s magic and gods sure, if there was reason for it we definitely could but that doesn’t really take away from the plan.  I don’t understand why there’s all this debate, or why you have a need to try to show that it’s not a perfect plan, but If your intent is to somehow show Baldur was being brazen or brash, this discussion did not do anything to show that.

Killing Ulfric has more chance to go south for Baldur than this, and hell, I even chose to have several people find out about it by magical means, but that doesn’t at all take away from what he did. It sure doesn’t mean he’s careless and I never acted like anything he’s done is 100 percent bulletproof.

But this particular action I have a hard time picturing it any cleaner.

[ColonelKillaBee]

I did say “left no possible way for the Empire to find out about it” but I said that thinking everyone understood I didn’t mean some fluke accident or literal godly interference lol. No one can account for such things. Doesn’t make the plan any less flawless.

As flawless as it can get. And that’s important since that comment was made in relation to accusations of Baldur’s level headedness.

[The Good Doctor]

Meh. I enjoy discussing this stuff. It’s not like Witch and I were fighting or anything. Just a fun debate.

[Celan]

Just now, The Good Doctor said:

Meh. I enjoy discussing this stuff. It’s not like Witch and I were fighting or anything. Just a fun debate.

I get it, it just seems to me that people talk about the rp like a competition.

[ColonelKillaBee]

Normally I’d agree but the debate is pretty meaningless and reeks of salt. 

I dunno what your thing is with Baldur but it gets old, Witch. Criticism is one thing but the constant hounding is annoying imo.

[Witchking of Angmar]

3 minutes ago, ColonelKillaBee said:

Normally I’d agree but the debate is pretty meaningless and reeks of salt. 

I dunno what your thing is with Baldur but it gets old, Witch. Criticism is one thing but the constant hounding is annoying imo.

Truth be told I've criticized Lorgar more than Baldur overall. Though it's honestly mostly that I feel that Baldur has recently grown arrogant and rude. It's just an observation. While I've never seen Breaking Bad, I know enough that I've gotten the impression that that is the path you want to take Baldur. Big, powerful, great, before it all comes crashing down. 

I personally find you to take things more personally than you should. You even referred to Baldur as I previously in the argument. 

[ColonelKillaBee]

Breaking bad isn’t the path I wanted to take him in, I just pointed out some similarities.

The only thing that is different from before...

Actually there really isn’t a difference, Baldur’s always been rude to milkdrinkers, even during negotiations, and he’s definitely always been arrogant. 

And yea I do take it personally when you praise everyone else then shit on my character. It’s not the first time. Maybe it’s a language barrier thing but the way you opened up your critique to this post certainly didn’t seem constructive.

[ColonelKillaBee]

And with Daric missing and what happened with Boldir and Mila, playing nice and smiling for Trevis didn’t seem appropriate. Not to mention someone just tried to kill him AND his daughter and admitted they were really looking for his wife. Damn right he’s gonna be rude.

[ColonelKillaBee]

Just now, The Good Doctor said:

This might be better for the OOC thread. Since those move slower anyway. 

That said, I love this part. I often forget about Baldur’s swirl since it doesn’t come up too often and I’m guessing he only wears it for certain circumstances.

Lol when he was becoming the ash king he had a whole body of swirls. First time he did that Rebec I think joked that Nessy was sure to take him away this time  

But yea, when they were at war he had it all the time. Last time he put it on, Kyne’s Watch was in celebration.

[ColonelKillaBee]

I think he put it on for his fight with Brund too.